I have several friends who have had so many complaints about new 7 and 5 series problems that they have turned the cars back to the dealer. Does anyone know where I can find reliable statistics or reviews to determine whether they're unlucky or there are enough "new model" problems to avoid this car?
545i quality control
- Thread starter gregver
- Start date
What are the specific compliaints?
Sure, there's been some issues (mostly minor) due to software, etc. There's also been some issues with availability of some features but I guess it all comes down to personal opinion.
If you are the type of person who expects 100% perfection -- you probably shouldn't buy a BMW at all.
If you are willing to deal with some minor issues because the overall driving experience far exceeds your expectations, you should get one.
There are many, many, happy customers out there but as with anything, there will be some dissatisfied customers too.
I wouldn't call any of these things a "quality control" problem -- if anything, based on recent service trends, I'd say it's M-B that has the quality control problem.
Before the M-B people flame me, let me say that I am a customer of both M-B and BMW and will most likely continue to be that way.
Sure, there's been some issues (mostly minor) due to software, etc. There's also been some issues with availability of some features but I guess it all comes down to personal opinion.
If you are the type of person who expects 100% perfection -- you probably shouldn't buy a BMW at all.
If you are willing to deal with some minor issues because the overall driving experience far exceeds your expectations, you should get one.
There are many, many, happy customers out there but as with anything, there will be some dissatisfied customers too.
I wouldn't call any of these things a "quality control" problem -- if anything, based on recent service trends, I'd say it's M-B that has the quality control problem.
Before the M-B people flame me, let me say that I am a customer of both M-B and BMW and will most likely continue to be that way.
Rudy, I have to disagree with that. My parents have gone through many Mercedes and for the most part, they have been very reliable. A lot of people around us have BMW's, and it seems that a lot of new BMW owners we know are having way too many problems. It seems like BMW's enemy is the technology they incorporate into their new cars. I mean, BMW's are technologically advanced, but it seems like Mercedes is more on top of technology all while making it work flawlessly, for the most part.
Anyways, there are two truthful statements that can be made about the Germans:
1.) They are the most problematic cars on the road.
2.) They are the most entertaining cars on the road.
Personally, I think it's worth investing in a new 5-series (if the styling satisfies you).
BMW provides a great driving experience...the risk of receiving a car with a few problems is really worth the drive. [driving2]
Anyways, there are two truthful statements that can be made about the Germans:
1.) They are the most problematic cars on the road.
2.) They are the most entertaining cars on the road.
Personally, I think it's worth investing in a new 5-series (if the styling satisfies you).
BMW provides a great driving experience...the risk of receiving a car with a few problems is really worth the drive. [driving2]
MrElusive, I actually think we agree more than we disagree.
My response about M-B was more about quality control than with reliability. Both M-B and BMW cars, in my opinion, are reliable from a standpoint of major mechanical repairs and breakdowns, but lately my M-B has seen a flatbed many more times than any of my BMW's. Generally speaking, we agree that these German cars are not up to the Japanese level of reliability. The funny thing is that the tow truck was needed because of huge electronic problems that wouldn't even allow the car to start (and in one case, wouldn't allow the car to turn off!) The exact technology that you say M-B has right were the reasons I had to tow the car to the dealer.
The new 5-series problems that I'm hearing about are mostly electronic/software glitches and not mechanical/reliability issues (no tow trucks needed). Yes, the technology is advanced and they need to work a bit harder to get it right from the start but I think after the first year, they do get it right.
I've had first-hand experiences with M-B's since 1980 and with BMW's since 1989. The quality control problems I spoke of with regard to M-B seemed to start around the time the 2000 S-Class came out (COMAND system) and hasn't gotten much better with a 2003 S-Class. The prior S-Classes had very little problems and I still have no problems at all with an older SL class car. Again, M-B has the same problems implementing advanced technology into their cars at the beginning but it seems to take them way longer to sort everything out.
After experiencing these problems first-hand, I started seeing many automotive publications trashing M-B for the same exact things. Even the JD Power rankings for M-B fell while the BMW rankings rose. You may have had great results with your parent's cars but many of us saw a decline in these nuisance things.
On the 2000 S-Class, I accepted it as issues with a new model car -- just like I'm willing to accept certain issues with the new 5-Series I'm waiting for. In both cases, the driving experience outweighs the inconvenience of these glitches. If I wasn't willing to tolerate such things, I'd have gone to Lexus, etc. The thing that bothers me is that I'm seeing the same types of nuisance issues with the 2003 S-Class. You'd think by now they'd get it figured out. I still love the car so I'm not here to slam it. It's just that as far as quality control, I think M-B dropped a few pegs. Now if I'm sitting here in 2007 with a new 5-series and it still has these little glitches, I'll be saying the same about BMW.
Again, I'm not a troll here to blast these terrific cars. I love german cars and can't see myself not owning at least one. I'm not someone who's agenda is to criticize either brand. I love them both! (If I had to choose only one, I'd choose BMW but that's just me!)
My response about M-B was more about quality control than with reliability. Both M-B and BMW cars, in my opinion, are reliable from a standpoint of major mechanical repairs and breakdowns, but lately my M-B has seen a flatbed many more times than any of my BMW's. Generally speaking, we agree that these German cars are not up to the Japanese level of reliability. The funny thing is that the tow truck was needed because of huge electronic problems that wouldn't even allow the car to start (and in one case, wouldn't allow the car to turn off!) The exact technology that you say M-B has right were the reasons I had to tow the car to the dealer.
The new 5-series problems that I'm hearing about are mostly electronic/software glitches and not mechanical/reliability issues (no tow trucks needed). Yes, the technology is advanced and they need to work a bit harder to get it right from the start but I think after the first year, they do get it right.
I've had first-hand experiences with M-B's since 1980 and with BMW's since 1989. The quality control problems I spoke of with regard to M-B seemed to start around the time the 2000 S-Class came out (COMAND system) and hasn't gotten much better with a 2003 S-Class. The prior S-Classes had very little problems and I still have no problems at all with an older SL class car. Again, M-B has the same problems implementing advanced technology into their cars at the beginning but it seems to take them way longer to sort everything out.
After experiencing these problems first-hand, I started seeing many automotive publications trashing M-B for the same exact things. Even the JD Power rankings for M-B fell while the BMW rankings rose. You may have had great results with your parent's cars but many of us saw a decline in these nuisance things.
On the 2000 S-Class, I accepted it as issues with a new model car -- just like I'm willing to accept certain issues with the new 5-Series I'm waiting for. In both cases, the driving experience outweighs the inconvenience of these glitches. If I wasn't willing to tolerate such things, I'd have gone to Lexus, etc. The thing that bothers me is that I'm seeing the same types of nuisance issues with the 2003 S-Class. You'd think by now they'd get it figured out. I still love the car so I'm not here to slam it. It's just that as far as quality control, I think M-B dropped a few pegs. Now if I'm sitting here in 2007 with a new 5-series and it still has these little glitches, I'll be saying the same about BMW.
Again, I'm not a troll here to blast these terrific cars. I love german cars and can't see myself not owning at least one. I'm not someone who's agenda is to criticize either brand. I love them both! (If I had to choose only one, I'd choose BMW but that's just me!)
Rudy, you are definitely right, I was being too harsh on BMW in my original post. Mercedes has its fair share of problems, and I would be lying if I said Mercedes was any better than BMW in the reliability department. Just for better background, let me explain the situation. I am only 19 so I am still living at home with my parents and two brothers. Being a huge car enthusiast, I do most of the maintenance for the cars and when it's time for a new car, I do all the lease negotiations and stuff...usually, my father doesn't even come into the dealership. Anyways, a few months ago we gave back a 2001 E430 4Matic and a 2001 S500 for two 2004 S500 4Matic's. The E430 and the S500 gave us quite a few problems, and these new S500's are no exception. From the day my father took delivery of his S500, the tire pressure monitor was not functioning at all. And one night when I was driving my mom's S500, the COMAND Center wasn't playing any music! I could change radio stations but no sound would come out! Then the COMAND Center would shut off, then turn back on...how weird is that! But the next morning, the COMAND Center was working fine and the problem just never came back.
So from our experience, Mercedes does have its problems, but most of the time it is things that do not affect the operation of the car itself (meaning, the ability to get from Point A to Point B).
The only trouble-free Mercedes (in our experience), has been our 2002 ML500. We had a 1999 ML430 before that and it was very trouble-free and we were happy with it, so when the ML430 lease ended, we opted for the 2002 ML500. So far, after 22K miles, the ML500 has been running perfect, as well and I think it is due to the fact that the ML500 has signficantly less technology packed inside than an S-Class.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you buy a German car (whether it's Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc.) you are always taking a risk. But in the end, these cars are truly worth it. My dad has been a loyal Mercedes customer since the 1980's (and he grew up with his parents having Mercedes in their garage) and I don't think he will ever trust another car company.
So from our experience, Mercedes does have its problems, but most of the time it is things that do not affect the operation of the car itself (meaning, the ability to get from Point A to Point B).
The only trouble-free Mercedes (in our experience), has been our 2002 ML500. We had a 1999 ML430 before that and it was very trouble-free and we were happy with it, so when the ML430 lease ended, we opted for the 2002 ML500. So far, after 22K miles, the ML500 has been running perfect, as well and I think it is due to the fact that the ML500 has signficantly less technology packed inside than an S-Class.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you buy a German car (whether it's Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc.) you are always taking a risk. But in the end, these cars are truly worth it. My dad has been a loyal Mercedes customer since the 1980's (and he grew up with his parents having Mercedes in their garage) and I don't think he will ever trust another car company.