Front end problems

jrt67ss350 · Dec 9, 2003

My '87 325 has some sort of problem in the front end. The steering wheel will shake left and right a little bit between about 55 to 70 mph (the absolute most inconvenient and annoying speeds for the wheel to shake!). Below 55, there is no problem, above 70ish, the shaking goes away. There is also a slight accompanying vibration felt in the car at the same speeds as well - you can see it in the rear view mirror and feel it in the doors and the seat. When I brake lightly to moderately from 70, the steering wheel shake intensifies, but only from about 65 down to 50. Below 50, there is no more steering wheel shake. There is never any sort of pulsation in the pedal, and it doesn't shake the car. It only shakes the wheel. If I apply the brakes moderate to hard from 70 down to 0, the wheel will not shake at all. It doesn't have the symptoms of pulsating the entire car all the way down to a stop like all other warped rotors I've seen - it doesn't pulsate the car at all, just the wheel.

The car pulls to the left slightly. The vibration in the wheel existed before the car started pulling - the car used to track perfectly straight down the interstate without a pull, but the vibration was there even then. So, I'm not sure if the pulling is connected or not. The wheel vibration does seem to generally be getting worse. The puzzling thing, however, is that sometimes the car will drive perfectly smooth at 60, but most of the time the wheel shakes. Most of the time, the car drives smoothly at 70, but occassionally it'll vibrate alot at 70. The intensity of the wheel shake seems to vary, even on my daily commute on the same smooth interstate.

Along with all of this, the front tires are worn on the inside. The inner most tread block is worn significantly more than the rest of the tire, and it appears to have some cupping - the wear is uneven around the circumference of the tire. I think this wear issue is probably related to my wheel vibration. When I bought the car, the guy that inspected it at the BMW shop I took it to said the control arm bushings and ball joints looked fine upon visual inspection. I just took a quick look at the control arm ball joints a few minutes ago, and the boots are all still intact without any grease leakage.

Sorry for the long post, but this wheel vibration is starting to drive me nuts. [?|]

Anyone have any ideas?

pauld · Dec 9, 2003

Maybe you lost a wheel weight??

mjbst111 · Dec 9, 2003

one thing I would try before i would do anything major is put the rear wheels on the front and put the front on the rear. This will pinpoint for free if you problem is the tires/rims, or if it is in the steering/control. just switch them and see if it cures the problem.

Do you have the correct pressure in your tires?

You could have a broken belt in you tire, you could have thrown a balancing weight on a rim etc.

pulling can be cause by a bad alignment, bad tire pressure, messed up tire etc.

wear on the inside of your tire can be caused by squealing around bends, bad alignment, bad tire pressure etc.

that’s all i can think of right now. if i think of anything else i'll post again.

jrt67ss350 · Dec 9, 2003

Thanks guys. I forgot to mention that I had the all four wheels/tires balanced and it didn't fix the problem. The tire pressure is correct. I rotated the tires myself back in the summertime. I'm not sure if moving the front tires to the back and vice versa had much of an impact on the vibration. The wheel shaking was much less pronounced then - something I could live with. It seems to be getting worse now. When I had the tires balanced, the tech mentioned to me that he thought one of my rims was out of round or slightly bent, but I'm not sure if it was a front one or a rear one - I'm thinking it was a rear one.

Just to clarify, both front tires are worn excessively on the inside with a cupping pattern. Would alignment cause this? Anything else that could cause this?

I won't be able to do anything with it until Friday, but what I think I'll do is put the spare on to replace one of the front wheels, drive it and see if it changes anything, then try the spare on the other front wheel and see if it changes anything.

Keep the ideas flowing, guys!

mjbst111 · Dec 9, 2003

don't know for sure if a bad allignment can cause only the inside to wear.

is your car lowered? excessive wear on the inside could mean your camber is off.

I know my rear tires are like that, and my rear camber is off.

jrt67ss350 · Dec 9, 2003

nah, everything about my car is stock. If the camber is off with stock ride height and stock BMW springs/struts, does that mean the struts are bad?

mjbst111 · Dec 9, 2003

your springs could be sagging. Mine are in the back... and it seems to me that if you put anything in the trunk and even if you don't all e30s sag in the back. You said the tires were on the rear before right?

you can get the camber checked anywhere. then again it is not adjustable on our cars without a camber kit. gettting it checked and adjusted is quite pricey.

Custom 3 · Dec 9, 2003

mjbst111,

I think you've got a lot of great points. As I was reading jrt67ss350's post I was thinking the exact same thing. However, there is something else that needs to be checked.

jrt,

I would highly recommend going to a wheel and tire shop, preferrably a place that specializes in everything from the suspension to the wheels and ask them to give you a computerized alignment and make sure that they check your TIE RODs. If you want to check before going to a shop like that, there is a pretty simple test that you can perform yourself:

Jack up the front left (or right) of the car with the wheel still fully torqued on. Don't losen it.
Check for any play by trying to wiggle the wheel from top to bottom. If there is ANY play, there is a good chance you might have a problem with the tie rod. There should be no play.
Repeat for the other side. Whole process takes maybe 5 minutes.

I've had this problem before, and we checked everything. As it turns out, in my case, it was a combination of a few thing adding up into a larger vibration. I had a bad tire on a slightly OOR rim (out-of-round), plus a bad tie rod. The rim could have been from hitting a curb or a big pot hole when the previous owner was driving.

If you have a good spare tire and rim, you should try switching it with one of the wheels up front. If it doesn't go away, switch it to the other side. If it goes away, you've found the culprit. Bottom line is, if you're feeling it in the wheel and nowhere else, it's coming from either the steering or front suspension.

If you want to correct the tire wear problem, when you have an alignment done, make sure they look at your front camber. It sounds like you are running way to much camber for stock. This could also be tie rod related.

Hope this helps,

AutoXfreak · Dec 11, 2003

While doing the tie rod check that Jason suggested you might want to also wiggle the wheel side to side. If you get any sort of play you may also have bad wheel bearings. Which need to be replaced immedietly. Cant think of anything else that hasent already been said so good luck to you.

jrt67ss350 · Dec 11, 2003

Wouldn't bad tie rods cause the wheel to wiggle side to side instead of top to bottom? Wouldn't top to bottom be bad ball joints?

I know that the wheel bearings are noisy, especially the back ones. The back ones drone above about 30 mph. But, I've checked around and it'll cost me about $600 to have all the wheel bearings replaced. I can't afford that since the clutch will need to replaced sometime in the near future - living on a medical student budget.

I'll check and see if there is any visible slop in the front suspension by trying to wiggle the wheel and I'll also put the spare on the front axle positions to see if it changes things - might be a few days to a week before I have time to fool around with it though - studying for exams now.

Custom 3 · Dec 11, 2003

$600 for wheel bearings?! Is that just parts or labor inclusive? Bearings are not very expensive. Front bearings run about $75 depending on where you go, rear bearing are about 30. There are a few minor things you need to change along with the bearings, but all parts considered for a 4-wheel bearing change would be under 250. If you don't mind getting yourself a little dirty, you can easily save on the labor.

btw...I just checked out you bimmer page...for 220K+ miles it looks prestine. Great car!

jrt67ss350 · Dec 12, 2003

Jason,

Thanks for the compliment about the car. Yeah, $600 was including the parts and labor. Apparently it's 5 hours of labor to do both rear bearings. I certainly don't mind getting dirty one bit, but I was looking at my Bentley manual, and I don't have the tools required to replace these bearings - I don't have access to the special tools that are apparently required to press the bearings in and out. A little more involved than in my Camaro!

I'd prefer to do it myself and save the money if I can. So, if you've had prior experience doing this job, I'd appreciate pointers or advice for going about this and doing it myself.

Thanks! [thumb]

KC Ron Carter · Dec 12, 2003

Hmm,

Any vibration at 55 to 70 mph is wheel balance, 100%.

I can only recommend Hunter GSP9700 shops.

Check the link to locate one near you.

http://128.242.141.111/

Rear wheel bearings on a BMW are NOT a good DIY.

Rear wheel bearings

On removal since it is bearing steel, with "googles" on strike the race with a cold chisel and it will shatter.

For installation BMW recommends three tools, they are needed,

23 1 300
33 4 080
33 4 020

they pull the bearing in from the inner race.

hand tighten and lower car to floor for final torque, many have pulled them off the stands.

depending on size of nut:
22 mm is 129 to 155 ft lbs
27 mm is 173 to 192 ft lbs

Lug nuts are 66 to 81 ft lbs.

CV to drive flange are 42 to 46 ft lps.
Later,

RLJ · Feb 20, 2004

This might be a little late for you, but your vibration problem is definately a worn lower ball joint, get it sorted or you will need a new wheel bearing as well (like I did)

jrt67ss350 · Feb 20, 2004

Yeah, I know the wheel bearings "need" replaced. I rotated the tires front to back, and it helped out the vibration. It's still there sometimes, but it is definitely much better. I must have a bent rim or something in addition to some front end wear. The thing that really puzzles me is that sometimes I'll drive to school and it'll be perfectly smooth without any vibration. Then, the next day, I'll be driving to school on the same road at the same speed, and the steering wheel will vibrate. I don't understand it.

mjbst111 · Feb 20, 2004

yeah mine will be perfectly smooth some days and wiggle a tiny bit other days too. But it happens at a pretty high speed that i don't do all the time anyway so i can't complain too much. wouldn't mind figuring out what it was. I thought it went away when i got new tires but it came back a week or two later. maybe it was just a coincidence.

Kether · Feb 20, 2004

I had the same problem, same symptoms and all, on my 89 325i. Your problem is (and i'm 90% sure) contained within the lower control arm(s). On our cars the ball joints (There are 2 of them per side) are built into the control arm. Also, there is a bushing on the rear of the arm which can wear also. The best bet is to replace the control arms (Ball joints included), the bushing, and the bushing mount which is commonly referred to by many BMW techs as the lollypop. It is a job you can do by yourself, if you feel so inclined. Just be sure to get a wheel alignment once you're done or else you'll be in a worse state than you were before.

Kether · Feb 20, 2004

Re: Hmm,

KC Ron Carter said:

You should try front wheel bearings on a 325iX ;o)

(sorry for the double post folks)

kioneo · Mar 8, 2004

One additional thing to check, with regard to the braking, is your rotors. A warped rotor can cause the wheel to shake during braking (even semi-light braking).

jrt67ss350 · Mar 8, 2004

Kether said:

Thanks! At some point I'll give that a try. Car's in the shop now for a clutch replacement, and it'll be a while before I undertake another project with it.

Front end problems

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