help.. car is 'running live' without giving any power!! HELP!

[maciag]

i've posted this on many forums and no one ever responds except people that just say random stuff for a post count like 'IDK, THAT SUCKS'

i have a 87' 325e.. a lot of stuff is always running even without the key in the ignition.. car can be completely off for a long time and everything will always be running (can't tell if power windows always work too because they never did in the first place when i bought the car)
someone previously told me that my wires were 'running live' and that's what the cause is but that's all he said.. so that wasn't any help.

radio and the indicator LEDs that show if i need more coolant, brake fluid, etc. are always on without turning the car on in anyway. after a while i found that my battery died.. so i don't want to buy a new one until i get this problem fixed or id just be wasting more money on another battery.

someone please help me fix this problem!!

btw my friends dad said some kind of ignition relay/accessory relay is possibly stuck on? wtf does that mean?

 

[echothreezero]

That was exactly what I was thinking as I read your problem. Either the ignition switch module (where you put the key in) is faulty and not switching totally off (but then I suspect the car wouldn't turn off either) or the main relay is stuck on.

You'll find the main relays under a black plastic cover in the engine bay on the drivers side (LHD). I'll try to dig out my wiring diagrams when I get home and have a look if I can find a nice picture for you. If you can figure out which ones they are, try pulling them one by one and see if everythign switches off. If so, try replacing that relay.

 

[echothreezero]

PS - so you understand a bit better, a relay is an electrically controlled switch. When current travels to the relay it changes state (it closes if it is normally open or opens if it is normally closed) and allows current to flow or stops current from flowing in the main circuit it is attached to. If the relay is normally open (as it is in this case) and then closes but fails to open when current is removed from the trigger (ie you turn the key off) then there is still power flowing through the main circuit when it shouldn't be.

An auto sparky should be able to sort it for you pretty quickly. Relays are relatively cheap.

 

[Doughnut]

PS - so you understand a bit better, a relay is an electrically controlled switch. When current travels to the relay it changes state (it closes if it is normally open or opens if it is normally closed) and allows current to flow or stops current from flowing in the main circuit it is attached to. If the relay is normally open (as it is in this case) and then closes but fails to open when current is removed from the trigger (ie you turn the key off) then there is still power flowing through the main circuit when it shouldn't be.

An auto sparky should be able to sort it for you pretty quickly. Relays are relatively cheap.

Relays that are normally open will normaly fail normally open, and relays that are normaly closed, will normaly fail normaly closed.... Eeeer, yeah

This is a tough one, I'm looking more in the way of two wires, one that is constantly 'hot' (even with the ignition switch fully off) crushed into a wire that is on the accesory circuit... try pulling fuses one by one with a multimeter on the battery terminals measuring battery draw, to try and pin point the leak,
also sounds like its time to get the torch out and check along the ugly wiring loom.
Let us know what your gunna do.

 

[maciag]

alright.. so far this morning i went out to take off the ignition switch.. i took off the brown part off near the steering wheel and left the end of the harness connected (im pretty sure it's not necessary to disconnect the end of the hardness too to test it, PLEASE correct me if im wrong.).. noticed that there was corrosion.. but it seems the radio and everything still ran live without any power to the car still even after ignition switch removal.. so i dont think the ignition switch is the problem =/

if this comes to any use.. if i pulled fuse 4 the radio would obviously go off and there would be no more power to it but the check control panel would have lit LEDs still.. also i dont know if this was installed into the car from a previous owner.. or if it comes with bmw's but there's an off and on ignition flick switch on the left side of the steering wheel.. and when i flick it off or on it doesnt seem to do squat or effect a single thing

 

[jrt67ss350]

No, your BMW did not come with the switch you are talking about on the left side fo the steering wheel. I suspect that somebody who had no clue what they were doing has fiddled with the wiring in your car at some point along the line and has caused this problem for you. You need to do what echothreezero and doughnut have suggested you do - their advice is excellent and is really the only way you are going to pin point where your crossed wires are or bad relay are.

 

[maciag]

heres the switch im talking about..

any idea anyone.. i really need help with this problem!
i looked where it wired to and it goes to some blank button near the radio..? and the other red wire seperates to somewhere else.

 

[echothreezero]

The switch is just some aftermarket "bodgejob" God knows what it does, but probably not your problem.

 

[maciag]

gay.. haha

well any more specific places i should check out? what do i look for.. im pretty noob at this. haha

everyone learns though..

 

[Doughnut]

well any more specific places i should check out? what do i look for.. im pretty noob at this. haha

everyone learns though..

The chance of there being two circuits touching each other is huge!
Check for : cut/ spliced/ electrical tape/ scotch locks! on all your wiring, I'm sure you will find something sketchy under there

 

[jrt67ss350]

The chance of there being two circuits touching each other is huge!
Check for : cut/ spliced/ electrical tape/ scotch locks! on all your wiring, I'm sure you will find something sketchy under there

Yep, especially since it looks like the wiring harnesses under the dash have been opened up - I bet you have a short somewhere in that mess - you're just going to have to go through the wiring and look for funny stuff.

 

[Kirby]

Electrical problems can be tough to troubleshoot when the wiring is "virgin", a nightmare after someone has messed with it.

- Did you pull the relays one at a time? Does this cause the problem to go away? You need to do this and tell us the results!

- A bad ignition switch is still a suspect.

- I agree that it could be a short. This would have to be two +12v wires shorted together. Shorts to ground are MUCH more common, but usually would not cause what you describe.

A possibility is a "backfeed". This is where some "genius" wires two hot wires together, typically from different switched circuits. So even when the intended switch is off, power is still present. Pull the instrument cluster fuse out. Does it turn off? If no, keep pulling fuses until it goes off. You have then isolated the circuit causing the problem.

You are likely going to need a wiring diagram to solve this...

A few things to look forward that might steer you in the right direction:
- Wire nuts and splices - NEVER there from the factory
- Cut or loose wire looms, tape etc. The bundles are usually very nicely dressed from the factory.
- Aftermarket accessories (Stereo, etc.) Disconnect them at the BMW factory harness, not at the stereo aftermarket plug.

 

[maciag]

Electrical problems can be tough to troubleshoot when the wiring is "virgin", a nightmare after someone has messed with it.

- Did you pull the relays one at a time? Does this cause the problem to go away? You need to do this and tell us the results!

- A bad ignition switch is still a suspect.

- I agree that it could be a short. This would have to be two +12v wires shorted together. Shorts to ground are MUCH more common, but usually would not cause what you describe.

A possibility is a "backfeed". This is where some "genius" wires two hot wires together, typically from different switched circuits. So even when the intended switch is off, power is still present. Pull the instrument cluster fuse out. Does it turn off? If no, keep pulling fuses until it goes off. You have then isolated the circuit causing the problem.

You are likely going to need a wiring diagram to solve this...

A few things to look forward that might steer you in the right direction:
- Wire nuts and splices - NEVER there from the factory
- Cut or loose wire looms, tape etc. The bundles are usually very nicely dressed from the factory.
- Aftermarket accessories (Stereo, etc.) Disconnect them at the BMW factory harness, not at the stereo aftermarket plug.

-if you mean the little k1-k10 relays in the fuse box i pulled all those at the same time to see if itd change anything because im not sure what each of them do.. there was no k9 relay to begin with. pulling all of those didnt turn off a single thing if thats what relays i was supposed to pull out.

-i already pulled the ignition switch's brown part off and saw that 'green corrosion' ..i left the wiring harness part connected though because i figured by disconnecting the brown part, unplugging the harness side wouldn't make a difference after i did that. anyways, that didn't effect anything. power was still everywhere..

 

[maciag]

alright, now this is probably going to puzzle everyone that's helping me.. because soon as i found this out it puzzled me..

my hazard lights are kinda stuck and hard to push back out once you turn them on but you gotta toggle with it for a little to turn it back off.. but i turned on my hazard lights to see if they even worked today.. soon as i did the problem went away while the hazard lights were turned on? wtf?? once i turned the hazard lights off the problem came back. i turned the hazard lights back on and traced where the aftermarket flick switch was wired to.. it was wired to a blank button right next to the hazard lights.. i pressed that button that the aftermarket switch was hooked up to (the blank button) and then turned off the hazard lights once again and now the problem is completely gone.. what in the heck? i had a temporary test cluster hooked up, but with that problem turned off temporarily with what i just did the cluster illumination lights always stay on..

this sounds like a giant puzzle to me.. someone please help me sort this out!!

 

[jrt67ss350]

That "blank" button next to your hazard switch is actually the circuit breaker for your power windows. The way it is supposed to work is that when you press it and it pops out, showing a red bar around the edge, it kills the power to the power windows. Press it again and it should stay stuck in, and the power is supposed to be restored to the power windows.

Sounds like you have a big time short somewhere in the wiring under the dash involving the main power harness and the power window harness. You need to get under there and trace the wiring out to figure out what's wrong.