King of the (WET) Streets

[tool fan]

Last night on my ritual 250k drive from home to work, it started to rain very heavily. Adjusting for conditions I slowed down and at 65 mph I barely felt in control of my car. I am thinking that the 245/40 R18 tires were acting more like water skis than the usual magnets that hold my girl to the road. So I slowed down to 50mph which felt like a moderate speed. Thing that kills me is the Audi's were still doing 90+ mphs. Is this Quattro in action? I normally try to make it a habit of NOT letting Audi's pass me, but Iwas helpless last night. I also have DTC on my car (Dynamic Traction Control) which I attempted to use. Very strange. I felt more in control without it on. I must ask when is the appropriate time to use DTC and just so you know, when the streets dried up.....I SMOKED dem fools. I love my girl...just not in the rain.

 

[epj3]

Welcome to owning a bmw

The car gives you very good feedback, i notice on my car (which doesnt have any kind of fancy servo steering or anything) on the highway when it rains, you can feel it sort of go through or over puddles and the steering pulls slightly but besides that I dont notice a thing - you should notice even less given your car is 16 years newer.

You should turn the DTC on in the rain, it feels weird becuase it uses the brakes at each wheel individually when it senses it needs to do something -- this will save your arse if required. Thats the exact reason it feels weird, sometimes it cuts throttle also. I wouldnt push it, if you dont feel comfortable going that fast in the rain then dont, but I can comfortably go 70mph in the rain in our craptastic pontiac van, so you should definitely be able to do it in your car.

 

[Wadula]

first of all, the DTC is part of your DSC and originally named ASC+T. DSC is the ESP of BMW, just not named ESP. ASC+T actually is the Anti-slip control and part of the DSC. That system is always on by default. in your dash you have a yellow triangle with an arrow circling around. if that light is OFF, your system works. push the DSC button and you´ll see the sign pop up. then it is deactivated.

as for the audi´s you are most likely right. the quattro is very common in them. but at those speeds on a straight line, quattro does not make a difference. it is the tires that do so. and of course how fast one dares to go. if you have conditions like those on the autobahn where the quattro drive NEEDS to get active to save your butt it is almost too late already.

last but not least, i bet that the bmw is no worse/better/slower/faster in rain (on the autobahn of course!!!)than an audi. that is because the quattro has its favours in curves and turns, not in a straight line.

 

[tool fan]

Wadula....you are the man. I think that my 530i with the Active Roll Stabilation would eat an Audi quattro in the corners all day and most of the night. I test drove the A4 3.0 Quattro and was not nearly as impressed with it as i was with the BMW. Probably why I bought the BMW instead. But what you are saying seems just opposite of what I read. I was under the impression that when the DTC light was lit, that it meant the DTC was active. I am wrong in this assumption?

 

[Wadula]

you are indeed wrong. when you hit the button and the light comes up, just floor it from the line and you´ll see the difference

btw, i test drove the A4 3.0 quattro as well, and i was impressed. very impressed. that car had soooo much traction. especially at accelerating in turns...i loved it very muich and the car had power. sure, 220 are not the big bang, but it was a really fun car. at least in my books. funny that you had an A4 - 5series comparison. those cars are different leagues. why didn´t you compare the bimmer with an A6?

 

[snowsedan04]

My 325xi eats up the wet roads. No Audi is passing me rain or snow. Don't know why BMW doesn't add AWD to the 5 Series, but I'll probably never get a car without it.

 

[tool fan]

Wadula, If you look at the weight comparrisons the Audi A4 3.0 is 3583 lbs vs. A6 3880 lbs
The 530i is 3483 lbs. I needed to make a relative weight to hp comparrison and A4 was much closer to my weight. And I personally would not drive an A6 if I was given one (of course I would) I think they are UGLY. I never would have bought an A6 with its VW Passat looks.

 

[Wadula]

heck, an A4 is that heavy? or better said the 5er that light no honestly, i did not notice that the A4 is so heavy. I took it as given fact that the car is much lighter as it is a smaller class!
didn´t bmw build the old 5er with AWD? i think so...perhaps the new series comes out later with it.

 

[tool fan]

Hell man....half of the new 3 series are more or just about the same weight as the new 5er...the 545 is naturally a bit heavier. A co-worker here with me has a 325Cic and her car out weighs my 530i. It is because they have that all aluminum block and the extensive use of aluminum in the front of the frame. It is heavy enough and wide enough that I still feel 100% in control at 130 mph (I know I am not) but it is a good sense of false security. richtig oder?

 

[MrElussive]

Let me chime in here. Wadula is right...traction control is ALWAYS active. WHen you push the button and the yellow triangle comes up, that means it is OFF. The warning comes up, warning you that the traction control is OFF and that it is a safety risk.
As for Audi's Quattro AWD, it is a really kickass system. Quattro is a mechanical system that constantly puts 50/50 power distribution to the front and rear wheels and can work with the traction control to instantly adjust the power distribution. It responds extremely fast and is quite a flawless system. Thanks to the Quattro AWD system, Audi's are absolute champions in the rain. They grip wet roads like glue, so I'm not surprised that Audi's were flying past you on the highway. It is purely a matter of traction, and an AWD system will always be better in the rain than a RWD system (the car will feel more "planted" to the road), whether it's going through lots of turns or just driving in a straight line...all 4 wheels are constantly working for you.

 

[Ghost]

I agree Audi does makes a great AWD, although I didn’t realize that they are that heavy. One thing that may contribute its great traction in adverse conditions is that added down force.

I don’t like when cars pass me either, but one thing I keep in mind is that at certain speeds and conditions physics takes over. And whether a vehicle has RWD or AWD, any vehicle can lose traction. I’ve seen at least three AWD vehicles (with drivers that have a false sense of security) pass me, only to come around a corner to see that they skidded into a ditch or smashed into a barrier. AWD may offer more traction in the rain and snow, but even a train derails from time to time.

 

[GTMAN]

Mr. Elussive is right on AWD's having spiderman traction all the time. I used to own a modified 98 Legacy GT AWD with active AWD. In the rain, I was king...even with 170hp. You can get into such wonderful controled power slides in the wet streets. I always love rainy days with the GT. The AWD system is a god sent I think. Imaging a 2 legged animal vs a 4 legged animal. When you have 1 tire patch that slips, a good AWD system (like Quattro), can redirect the power to 3 wheels.....if 2 slips, 2 grips...3 slips, 1grips. And with 1 gripping tire, one can still direct power to it! Thats the beauty. Until you have driven a sport tuned AWD in rain, you know that it will kick any 2wd's behind. Dont get me wrong, I love my 540, but if I had a choice between 540AWD or 540RWD...I'd choose AWD hands down. The streets out there are not well maintained race tracks on a nice dry sunny day. I highly recommend folks to drive a 00+ Audi S4....throw it around a turn and get on the gas in the turn....believe me, you will think twice about slammin AWD...not to mention how many of us have spun all 4 wheels (under full throttle) drifting in full control [headbang] ! .....dont recommend it, unless in a controlled environment....but those were the glory days

 

[epj3]

Until you have driven a sport tuned AWD in rain, you know that it will kick any 2wd's behind.

Not so -- explain why formula 1 cars arent awd...

 

[GTMAN]

I said "In the Rain". Dont know about F1 regulations, but I dont believe F1 teams and designers will design in an AWD system that puts on a couple hunderd pounds just for a rainy day that occurs a hand full of times. Since all F1 cars are RWD, slap some rain tires and thats good enough for rain.

Here is a fact (perhaps Euro guys can correct me): AWD cars are banned from the British Touring Car Circuit. Audi 1.8T Quattro used to dominate the scene when AWD was allowed in the early early/mid 90's.

Another Fact: Team Audi in the Speed Vision GT Car Champs in 01 were slapped with a few hundered lb weight penalty because they had AWD (and maybe also for the Turbo and awesome power/weight ratio) won it for that year. I watched those Audi S4's with the added weight still keep up with the big dogs like Viper, 911, C5R etc...and come out 1st place! For this year, though the circuit is not over, Audi RS6 is in 3 place in point standing. Cadillac CTS-V is 1st and 2nd. Check out this link:

http://www.world-challenge.com/2004/gt-standings.html

Dont get me wrong, Bimmers are tight and they do take my breath away, but so are handful few cars out there - we all have our preferences. All have their own unique personality and special performance features and suit different type of driving skills.

 

[tool fan]

Holy kaka.....since when did the vettes start battin' 5th., 7th and 12th holy macaroni!!!!!! What is the world comin' to when a Cadi is dominating ANY racing circuit???

 

[first5ny]

I have heard that AWD is coming for the 5 series in about a year.

My 528 doesn't have the DSC, it has the ASC. I know how to enable and disable it. My question is: Should it be enabled during dry driving conditions? My dealer said to just leave it on all the time. Will I have more power with it off? Can I cause any damage with it off?

 

[GTMAN]

I think BMW North America needs put together Team BMW, like Audi did, and run the new M5 out there. This is the top, highest HP, class you could get without getting into LeMans style GT racers. Have the 2005 M5 protein diet down to weighing in at..say 2800lbs...bench pressing 600+hp.....V10 flexin all 2 Pecs 8 abs - all chest....now we'll see some major Manufacturers battles. In fact I really like to see an all out battle between Merc. E55 AMG, Audi RS6 Twin Turbo, and '05 M5 in this circuit. Big Daddy M5 needs to represent!

 

[MrElussive]

AWD is a great system. And when it's standard on the Porsche 911 Turbo, that's when you need to stop thinking about any doubts you may have about AWD.

An Audi with Quattro AWD offers a level of traction (dry or wet) that RWD/FWD cars don't even dream about. It is a very aggressive AWD system that puts 50/50 power to the ground (most AWD systems are more passive, electronically-controlled, and are rear-drive or front-drive biased) and has a wonderfully confident, "glued to the road" feeling. The only downsides to Quattro are its weight -the mechanical Quattro system weighs 200-300lbs alone, depending on the application- and the additional stress the engine has to deal with since the engine is actively powering all 4 wheels evenly. Quattro adds about 0.5 - 1 second to the vehicle's 0-60 time, but I think it is definitely worth it.