Words of wisdom needed for '88 325ix..

[gills]

hey guys,

First i just want to let you know that this is a semi long post so be ready. If you can read it and help me out i would be very thankful because i'm really looking to buy this car. I posted up on bimmerforums and barely anyone has helped me out. here's the link to bimmerforums for couple of replies someone posted: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=456564

Anywhere here is my post:

Hey guys,

I know you probably get a lot of threads like this and i definitely searched but my situation is a little different.
I've already posted up a thread about a valve ticking/tapping issue about the car here:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=455493

Anyway, more information:

Car has 187k-190k.
All electronics work(except power antenna)
interior is in very good condition

exterior is good for it's age. Tiny rust spots on the passenger side door on bottom, small spot on sunroof, and trunk. No major dents, dings

Jacked the car up to check for a leaking transfer case and other parts. Looks clean of tranny fluid. There seems to be oil on the passenger side axle and misc parts (under oil filter area)but it's not fresh..more on this..

Shifter feels like it's mounted in jello. There's something disconnected because even when it's in gear you can move it all the way from side to side

suspension and steering feel very good. The car "feels" great besides the horrific shifter. I believe it's lowered on m-technic(? can't remember exactly) springs with bilsteins in the back and some other brand in the front.

There seems to be oil puddled up near the oil filter, exhaust headers on some kind of mounting plate. It's actually slighty above and to the side of the oil filter/headers. I'm not sure where this came from but i'm thinking it's from lazy oil filter changes when taking it off and spilling it. I'm thinking(hoping) the oil i saw underneath was from this as well. Ideas? Any why the hell is the oil filter mounted underneath the headers?!? lol

The valve tapping/knocking issue. The owner prior to the one selling me the car has kept all the service records from when he owned the car. The current seller was nice enough to give me his phone number since he was very involved with this car. I asked him about it and he told me the valve adjusters are worn and cause this knocking noise. Even when adjusted the noise will come back within 2k miles. I was told in the previous post that this is common. What is involved with changing these? is it better to just find a used head off a junker?

Checked the oil dipstick about 3-5 minutes after i had the engine running. DOH! there's some white streaks in the oil. I'm definitely thinking Head gasket issue. I called the previous owner on this topic and he said he never had any loss of coolant or white smoke out the pipe issues. He did mention that since the car is rarely driven and just sits(which is true, the new owner has put maybe 2-3k miles on it since may 05. That was in the first months that he owned it and the last couple is has been sitting in cold weather), that possibly water has has developed in the oil pan because it never is heated up all the way. The car does just sit there and is not started very often and not heated up all the way. Regardless of that theory, i plan on changing out the head gasket if i notice more severity.

Now between the valve issue, head gasket, and shifter issue this guy is asking too much money IMO. Add to that the timing belt is due for replacement(previous owner claims 30-50k ago which means i change right away if i buy). I plan to change the head gasket, head studs, timing belt, tensioner pulley, water pump, install a rogue or UUC shift kit, new valve adjusters if it makes sense, and miscellaneous tune up parts. All that added up with doing the work myself= i have no idea. What would these parts run me? The engine does feel good and seems to have all the torque/power that it should have. Just the coolant/water on the dipstick and valve issue are really buggin me.

I shot out an offer of 1500 and he turned me down and i said arrivederci. But the car keeps calling me for some reason and i'm thinking about calling him back to see what his offer is. My opinion is the car is worth no more than 2000. I'm assuming i'm going to have to spend another 500 in parts to get it in proper running order so that would bring it to 2500 which is what the car would be worth. I'm not sure if that's a proper ballpark or not which brings me here.

I would like to hear your advice and what you think is the best thing to do for each issue i mentioned and how much you would spend. What is the best route to take. Remember i will be doing all the work myself.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[nadroj]

i would look around a lil bit more maybe find one with a little less miles and a little less rust. but its really up to you, it sounds like a lot of work you are going to have to do. i mean theses cars are pretty much bullet proof so of corse it will last a while. i have even read an artical were a guy went to change the oil on an old e30 and all that was left of the oil was sluge. I would just wait, maybe you will find a better deal and maybe this guy will come down a bit.

 

[epj3]

The mileage wouldn't be a problem EXCEPT that it is an IX. You have twice the number of drivetrain parts that WILL need replacement eventually. A car with that many miles, an IX, and one ilmaintained enough to have crap in the oil, is worth LITERALLY about $1000.

Horrible picture, I know - but I bought my e30 for $3500 - it was a 1988 325is, 165k miles (when I bought it), and very properly maintained. Exterior was in near PERFECT condition (minus a few minor things here and there) and interior was the same though not till after I cleaned it a bit.

http://www.bmwchannel.com/eric/BMW Stuff/e30/plasticpolish/PICT0134.jpg for closer up (took that pic to show how the plastic polish made the mirrors look un-faded)

 

[jrt67ss350]

I bought my 1987 325 coupe a couple of years ago with 260,000. Go to http://www.cardomain.com/ride/449692 to see pics that I took not long after I bought it. I paid $1500 for it and it needed nothing. I've fixed things along the way as needed, but overall it's been a great car. I now have about 295,000 on it and she is doing great.

All the things you mention (besides the possible head gasket issue) are common issues with the e30. The shifter slop is extremely common. There probably isn't anything broken. There are a bunch of bushings and joints in the shift linkage and they wear out, causing all that slop. The good news is that all of the parts that wear in the shift linkage are external to the transmission and can be replaced fairly easily (at least in a non IX). You really do need to drop the driveshaft to get clearance to work, so things may be more complicated in an IX. I'm not really familiar with drivetrain setups in those cars - I'm not sure how the transfer case and stuff will complicate matters. But, you can replace all those bushings and stuff for somewhere around $40-$50 as opposed to several hundred for a short shift kit.

The valve tapping noise - it's an M20, so it makes valvetrain noise. Period. These cars have a setup that is equivalent to solid lifters, so they are noisy. However, it should just be a tapping sound - if it's knocking, then that's probably something different. You definitely shouldn't be able to hear it inside the car if it is normal lifter noise. The fuel injectors in these cars are also noisy. Normal fuel injector clicking noise is often confused with valvetrain noise. Valve adjustments are easy to do. If you need to replace the rocker arm eccentrics (the devices you manipulate to adjust the valve clearance), that's not a big deal. If the engine is just making light metallic tapping sounds that sound like they are coming from under the valve cover and the car idles smoothly, then there probably isn't much to worry about as far as the valvetrain goes.

Definitely replace the timing belt - it's an easy job to do yourself.

Eric is right about the extra maintenance cost due to the fact that it is an IX. You'll also find that normally replaced suspension parts like lower control arms and struts, etc cost significantly more for the IX than for a non-IX simply by virtue that there aren't nearly as many IX cars around as non-IX cars.

I don't think I'd spend more than $2000 on it.

 

[epj3]

Justin gave some very good advice. I do generally find these cars VERY easy to work on. When I first got the car, there was MUCH I was still learning about cars to begin with, and I still did fine. Now repairs dont phase me... I just get a bag of good coffee and go at it.

 

[jrt67ss350]

Now repairs dont phase me... I just get a bag of good coffee and go at it.

I prefer the hopps and barley variety.

 

[gills]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The valve noise issue is definitely not normal. I've owned cars with loud valve trains and this noise is abnormal. Like i said, the previous owner swears that it is just the valve eccentrics and that he drove the car around for thousands of miles with the valve issue. If/when he had them adjusted the noise would come back within 2k miles. I trust him more than the current owner since the current owner doesn't know a damn thing about that car. He's asking 3500 neg for crying out loud! He's on crack! He's looking to shaft some poor, poor guy/gal that doesn't know how to use carfax because there is a serious odometer discrepency. The current odo reads 102k but no one in their right mind will pay what he's asking for the car unless they are completely clueless.

The good thing is the previous owner has kept every single service receipt that he had done. He had most drivetrain wear parts replaced fairly recently so that's a plus. There's nice new rubber boots and shafts down there.

As for the head gasket issue, this is what worres me most. Although what the previous owner had mentioned does make a little sense. The car currently sits there in the cold(unregistered, uninsured), started sporadically and never heated up completely. I guess water can build up in there. I did check the oil filler cap too and there's was no white goo cheese underneath.

I told the guy that the car is worth no more than 1500. He rejected but he took my phone number so we'll see. I'd be willing to spend MAX 1800-2000 on it. I know no one will be buying that thing for what he's asking so the time will eventually come. I'll give him a ring next week to see how it's doing.

Thanks guys,
tom

 

[epj3]

I prefer the hopps and barley variety.

Ok I should rephrase: Coffee for minor <2 hour repairs. Hopps and barely variety for all others. [|)]

Dude honestly you'd be getting shafted if you paid more than $1k for it. E30's by all means aren't worth anything anymore except the M3, which is worth two sets of tires on an M5 or X5 4.8is.

 

[gills]

Ok I should rephrase: Coffee for minor <2 hour repairs. Hopps and barely variety for all others. [|)]

Dude honestly you'd be getting shafted if you paid more than $1k for it. E30's by all means aren't worth anything anymore except the M3, which is worth two sets of tires on an M5 or X5 4.8is.

Nah, it's worth more than 1k. If that was the case then you would see very good condition IX's go for 2500 which never seems to be the case. These cars are rare and hold their value extremely well. Hell, they might start appreciating like the E30 M3 has. I'm going to hold out on him for a little. He'll realize eventually than there are very few people willing to buy 17 year old german car!

Hops and barley are the beverage of choice on this end

 

[epj3]

Nah, it's worth more than 1k. If that was the case then you would see very good condition IX's go for 2500 which never seems to be the case. These cars are rare and hold their value extremely well. Hell, they might start appreciating like the E30 M3 has. I'm going to hold out on him for a little. He'll realize eventually than there are very few people willing to buy 17 year old german car!

Hops and barley are the beverage of choice on this end

I dont know.. sounds like it's a mechanical nightmare.

You're going to expect to replace the following (most of these are replaced on nearly EVERY e30 in the first 200k miles)

-Head gasket (Plus everything associated with it, like getting the head checked for warping/cracks)
-Oil pan gasket (Very tough on IX's)
-Transfer case (good luck)
-Front CV joints (expensive)
-100% of the suspension (thats around $1k between bushings and parts if you do it yourself. hope you have a shop press)
-All seals on the transmission and differential. Chances are they are leaking like a bitch.
-EFI system (Fuel injectors (if I remember correctly around $80 a piece), fuel pump/sender unit ($170), coil ($60 at autohausaz), plug wires ($120, or $340 at the dealer), cap + rotor ($100).

I put about $2,500 into my E30 in the 11 months I owned it - most WAS "upgrades" or stuff to make it run better/smoother. It worked as I went from 24 mpg to 31 mpg highway substantially faster (still slow though!) Only ABSOLUTELY necessary repairs I did were front control arms, steering rack, and the clutch.

Do you have pics of the car? Unless the body is in ABSOLUTE perfect condition, its not worth over $1500, and that's being optimistic because you'll undoubtedly put loads of money into the car.

 

[jrt67ss350]

Unless the body is in ABSOLUTE perfect condition, its not worth over $1500, and that's being optimistic because you'll undoubtedly put loads of money into the car.

I absolutely agree with Eric on this. It sounds like this particular car needs a fair amount of work. Add in the complexities of the AWD system, and you'll be definitely be spending a fair amount of money on this car as you own it.

Eric, you left out the steering rack - these almost always go bad in the first 200k miles, and unless you luck out and find a cheap one on ebay, you'll be spending big $$ for a new/remanned one.

Another problem area that is a potential big money pit is the driveshaft. Expect this to crap out somewhere after the 200,000 mile mark. Mine went out earlier this year on me. The problem with the driveshafts in these cars is that the u-joints are not replaceable. They are staked into the driveshaft yokes instead of being held in with c-clips like every other car on the planet. As a result, to replace the u-joints, you have to have the shop equipment necessary to DRILL OUT the hardened steel u-joints, then machine the driveshaft yokes to accept replacement u-joints and c-clips. Then, take the driveshaft to have it balanced. The center u-joint in my driveshaft (the one behind the center support bearing) had worn to the point that the trunnion wore through the bearing cap and into the driveshaft yoke. The car was not driveable above 20 mph. I considered selling the car at that point because a rebuilt driveshaft cost about $500 for my lowly 325e. Something to keep in mind.

Don't get us wrong, they are great cars, and for the most part are easy to work on. But, with the potential costs of this car, you certainly don't want to pay too much at the outset. Especially since it needs work immediately.

 

[epj3]

Hehe yea I should've put in steering rack. I did replace mine - got it factory remanufactured for $150 on ebay! The guy had recieved 2 of them, and had buy it now $150 because he had no clue what it was for and just wanted to get rid of them. When I parted out my E30, I sold the rack for $230 on ebay!

gills we're not trying to sway you away from it - they are ABSOLUTELY great cars. I'm just trying to save you from some headache-inducing repairs. The type of repairs where you take so much tylonel that your liver starts to cry

If you keep your eye on them and fix something when it starts to make weird noises or whatever, it'll be one of if not THE most reliable car you will most likely own. My E34 broke down 2 weeks ago, and it turned out to be a bad coil - which I knew wasn't 100% anyways and should just just replaced, but that ended up frying the ECU too. I put 24,000 miles on my E30 in 11 months (holy shit! ) and just over 12k in my E34 in nearly 11 months. I've had ONLY ONE break down between the two, in my e34 - and that was my own fault for neglecting to maintain the car.

Honestly if you want all wheel drive, buy a subaru. Great cars, bulletproof drivetrains, and they are almost all AWD so parts for AWD models aren't rare. If you want a BMW, get a RWD model. Honestly you'll put more money into maintaining an IX than you would an M3.

 

[ldzpstnr]

It is that much of a b!tch to replace the U-joints??? Yikes, I gotta do that soon. What a pain in the arse.

Steerings racks go out at about 200K? What do they do, just start leaking or do they jam up and refuse to turn? I am assuming my steering rack has 225K like the rest of my car... so thats another thing to get ready to replace.

Yea Gill these are great cars, I am on the third one I have owned now and wont buy anything else. Granted I gotta spend money on my car now, but hey its got 225K on it. I love my E30, drives great, has decent power, corners good, great brakes, and gets good mileage for what it is. Plus, if anyone gives you crap about having an "old" car, all you gotta say that its still a Beamer. Usually people shut up at that point. Later

Aaron

 

[epj3]

It is that much of a b!tch to replace the U-joints??? Yikes, I gotta do that soon. What a pain in the arse.

Steerings racks go out at about 200K? What do they do, just start leaking or do they jam up and refuse to turn? I am assuming my steering rack has 225K like the rest of my car... so thats another thing to get ready to replace.

Yea Gill these are great cars, I am on the third one I have owned now and wont buy anything else. Granted I gotta spend money on my car now, but hey its got 225K on it. I love my E30, drives great, has decent power, corners good, great brakes, and gets good mileage for what it is. Plus, if anyone gives you crap about having an "old" car, all you gotta say that its still a Beamer. Usually people shut up at that point. Later

Aaron

I know what you mean.

And about the rack - the seals at the shafts (where the tierods attach to) start to leak like crazy and fill those boots up with fluid, and then make nice streaks on the road when you turn.

 

[gills]

First i must say that this is by far the best BMW forum that i've found for information. Thanks for the replies.

I like how you suggested buying a Subaru because of the AWD. Well, i already own one An 04 STi with 350whp and a nicely modified suspension for my favorite thing to do, track days!

oops, pics don't work. If you want to check it out street trim go here. I'm sure you'll like it:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560917

Now for all the part you guys mentioned about IX have been replaced already fairly recently by the previous owner. Transfer case seals replaced, front driveshaft, front axles, tierods, CV joints, ball joints, wheel bearings, O2 sensor, ABS sensors, struts, springs....I can't remember what else right now. The steering rack wasn't replaced as far as i know and neither was the head gasket(obviously)

When i went to go and look at the car I was prepared and brought my jack, a couple jack stands and i went to town underneath the car. It was free of any tranny, diff, transfer case leaks and all the parts i just mentioned looks pretty fresh.

But overall i definitely agree that the car isn't worth more than 1500 and i don't think i'll spend more than that. The car is on crack if he thinks that he's going to get 3500 neg for it. The car is still sitting there and probably will be for a good amount of time if he doesn't budge on the price more. I have a feeling i'll be getting a phone call from him somewhat soon and if not, i'll call him next week to see if he's budged yet.

I already am looking at other E30s but not IXs. Currently looking at an IS that seems like it's in pretty good condition and i'm interested. It will also be less problematic since this car will be my school/work/winter car. I need it to be fairly reliable.

As for doing all that work, it's not TOO big of a deal. My brother and I have invested a good amount of money into tools to be able to do most jobs. Actually he is the reason i'm on the BMW kick right now. We swapped in a complete front clip(minus fenders) from an E36 M3 into his 318ti about 3 years ago. Such an awesome car that i loved very much. Unfortunately this pas November he put it into a tirewall at Limerock part in Connecticut. It's ok though because he already has a new transplantee with a 328is 4 door. I guess he's jealous that i have a 4 door sports car [unsure] But we've been thinking that we can throw the engine from his 328is into my E30 when i get one. And an IS will be the best candidate for that

and after(ewwww, i hate looking at this pic)

Thanks all again for your responses and if you can add anything else i'd love to read it!

 

[jrt67ss350]

It's very refreshing to see an STi without the god-awful factory rear wing. I love your car with just the lip spoiler on the back. Looks very nice!

I have to say that Subies are pretty neat cars. My fiancee's dad has a Legacy Outback 3.0 VDC sedan. It's definitely a fun car to drive, especially in the snow.

 

[epj3]

Very clean looking subaru!! I've always been a fan of subaru's (Except their new SUV or whatever... the one that looks like a 'flying vagina')

 

[gills]

It's very refreshing to see an STi without the god-awful factory rear wing. I love your car with just the lip spoiler on the back. Looks very nice!

I have to say that Subies are pretty neat cars. My fiancee's dad has a Legacy Outback 3.0 VDC sedan. It's definitely a fun car to drive, especially in the snow.

I feel the same way sometimes but, It's actually functional which is why i always swap it back on before i go to track days. Also, the wheels i have on the car for the street actually make the wing look much better for some reason. And saying subies are "neat" is a little bit of an understatement