Bigger Brakes

[E30-323TI]

First post on the new forum, hopefully it works.


Well the E30-323ti project is almost ready for road testing.
Just waiting on the radiator to be completed then I can do the Intercooler plumbing, and go for a drive.

Anyways, the brakes.
I have upgraded to 290x26mm discs and 2 pot calipers.
The discs are from a late model Nissan Patrol (305x26mm), I had to machine mine down to 290mm dia because of the old skool 16" wheels I'm using. The central hole needed to be machined to 120.3mm to fit over the E30 Hub.
I have used 8mm thick bissalloy 80 plate as the rotor hats (surface ground) which are bolted to the rotor by 6xM12 CS Allen bolts. The hat fits the hub as per the OE discs.
The 2pot calipers are from a Lancer EVO 4 (same as 2g DSM eclipse calipers).
Caliper brackets are also required.

The discs also come in a 295x20mm size which can be used with the stock E30 calipers (caliper bracket needed).

I have a few pic's of the setup if someone can host them for me.

Hope you all find this useful.

Later

Glenn

 

[E30-323TI]

Difference in thickness from stock.

 

[E30-323TI]

Difference in Diameter.

 

[E30-323TI]

Caliper mount currently being made.

 

[epj3]

Man that new rotor is definitely bigger. Now you're going to stop even faster But I was wandering -- will the ABS now be messed up? I think I read somewhere that someone had to take the sensor off or something

 

[Lowen]

Glenn-

Mad props for orginiality! Definatly interested in hearing more specs of the brake system, aswell as the car itself!

1 question, what are you using for your brake bias? Did you upgrade your MC?

 

[E30-323TI]

No prob's with ABS as my E30 doesn't have ABS.

I can't see how it would effect the ABS as the ABS only works when one wheel stops turning in relation to the other wheels and it them pulses that brake to keep the stopped wheel turning.

It will only effect the ABS if the brake bias is right up the shit, in that it won't be as effective but should still work.

Lowen:
Haven't done anything re: Brake Bias yet as I haven't driven the car, I will see how they perform in the next week or so (radiator dependant) and then decide if a MC upgrade is needed or some kind of inline bias adjustment.

If the new caliper has 2 pistons @ say 35mm dia as opossed to the stock single @ say 50mm they come out with about the same cross sectional area, so pedal effort should be very similar. Fingers crossed.

 

[E30-323TI]

Lowen:

Car details.

1985 E30 323i
German assembled.

The old M20 turned into an oil pump after 300,000miles, which I thought was pretty amazing!!

puts on all the flameproof suits he can find
The new engine is a Toyota 1JZ-GTE from a JZZ30 Soarer (similar to a SC300/400).
2.5l twin turbo (3.0l tt supra's little brother)
280hp
363Nm (270lbs/ft I think)

takes of the nomex balaclava to defend his choice in engine
Cost vs power.
At $3500 NZ ($1750 US) for a 2.5l M50 & GB (no ecu or wiring loom) for 195hp.

Vs

$2300 NZ ($1150 US) for 2 1JZ-GTE's, 5spd GB (rare), Loom, ECU and a whole lot of misc stuff, for 280hp.

It wasn't a hard decision.

 

[E30-323TI]

FWIW, The toyota engine wired into the BMW very easily, the only thing I haven't got going yet is the economy gauge.
It would have been wired up in less than a day if I could read japanese.

 

[JTM]

ain tit gunna suck when you need new rotors? i mean youll have to get them special made, again.

 

[E30-323TI]

Not too bothered.
How often do you replace rotors?? Especially ones that thick!!

The rotors were $100 NZ ($50 US) each.
Machining was $75 NZ ($37 US) for both.
So for $137 US to replace the rotors ain't too bad.
Still more than $40 US for stock ones, but what do you expect.

 

[rjp325i]

Hey, ATE power discs are grooved rotors and only cost $39. I change them out whenever I change pads. Unless you are doing the custom rotors yourself why not go to aftermarket rotors and be done with it. It makes brake jobs a lot easier especially if this car will see any track time. I hope you remembered to install stainless steel brake lines and ATE Super Blue Racing fluid.

 

[Kether]

Lowen: damn, if only that thread about the FC-20 motor in the E30 could have been migrated...

E30-323TI: nice job, isn't the 1JZ-GTE also the motor out of the Altezza?

 

[Lowen]

Glenn-

No comment on the engine swap ... Keep me updated however, as I am interested in it (even though you ripped that poor cars soul out). (j/k)

On our kits, we are running a 12 5/8" (320mm) x 1 1/4" (31mm) rotor on the race kits and a 12 1/8" (308mm) x 3/4" (19mm) rotor on the street kits. The race kit uses a 6 pot and the street kit uses a 4 pot. We sell a 25mm MC with the race kit as you simply need that size for the 6 pot. We also recomend upgrading to a stock e30 m3 23mm MC on the street kits since it is a 4 pot.

As for you, with a 2 pot, you may be able to get away with it. Just a FYI; an E30 M3 MC bolts right in without a problem, and it upgrades it to a 23mm system. You may have to bend some of your wire just a bit (nothing major).

If ya got any questions if ya run into any snags with the bias or whatnot, don't hesitate to post, I'm usually lurking.

Oh, one last questions, how are you mounting your brakets? I take it your not going to use a floating setup?

 

[halfnhalf325]

TT bmw now thats something i wanna see.

 

[E30-323TI]

rjp325i:
Fair comments, but they are still only 260x22mm discs!!
And from my experience with them in vigorous driving they became marginal at best, at the local race track they spat the dummy at the end of the front straight at only 100mph with the old M20, let alone the new engine with 2 times the power as I imagine it won't be too hard to get over 125mph, and I don't care how slotted or cross drilled the stock SIZED discs are, I just isn't worth the risk for saving $57 US, and they won't need to be replaced with every set of pads. I guessing you do that because they get a fair thrashing at the track and don't last too well??

Kether:
The Altezza/IS200/IS300 have the 3S-GE (2.0 NA 4cyl), 1G-FE (2.0 NA 6cyl) & 2JZ-GE (3.0 NA 6cyl)
No stock turbo ones yet, TOMs do a RS280T which has a turbo'd 3S-GE.

Lowen:
I looked at using Wilwood Dynalite 4pots but I didn't have enough space from the disc to the inside of the wheel spokes (needed 45mm I think, had 43 and spacers are illegal here).
19mm is pretty thin!?!? If it works though.
I would like to see some pics of your brake kits if you have any.
And how much do they go for??
I guess your race kits have almost no offset in the rotor/hat or they would be very very close to the steering ball joint.
If the 23mm M3 MC is an upgrade, what size is the stock MC?? 21mm??
If (when) I ever get new wheels (17's) then I should be able to fit some better calipers in there and not have to machine down the disc diameter which would halve the machining costs at the time of disc replacement.
Thanks for your support.

Floating setup??
It is a floating (sliding) caliper and is bolted to the mounting bracket (refer 3D drawing above) which is then bolted to the stock caliper mounting points.

The radiator is supposedly going to be ready on saturday, I take some pics of the radiator & intercooler when I mount them over the weekend, then it's just the IC plumbing to go.
Lowen, when you see the pics I'll talk to you about my bumper issues!!

Later

Glenn

 

[rjp325i]

My car is primarily a street car. I have not taken it much over 120mph here although it is capable. In a drivers school you seldom get up above that speed because we use the road course at Las Vegas Motor Speedway and only part of the NASCAR oval. Smaller tracks tend to be harder on brakes. I get 40-50K miles on a set of semi metalics. I do not believe in resurfacing because of the increase in the likelyhood of warpage. If yours is primarily a track car your needs are different so don't cut corners. You will be replacing brakes and rotors more often than me. When these custom rotors go, go with aftermarket such as a Brembo or Baer Eradi Speed. Remenber even though the custom rotors are larger they still have the metalic makeup of a stock rotor because they are a stock rotor albeit from a different car. Race/track cars need race parts. Your engine swap is definitely something different. I've done engine swaps between makes before but I have to say yours is different but one I would not do. Many cars here have engines in excess of 300K miles. Good luck and don't spare the safety because of dollars. Think long term and not short term cheap!

 

[E30-323TI]

rjp325i:

I get 40-50K miles on a set of semi metalics.

Dayum!!
My everyday car (Lancer EVO I) that I've had for the last 5yrs has only 50k miles on the clock, I've only put 20k on it in 5yrs.

You must do a shite load of miles!!

The E30 is my sunday/fun car so it will be doing maybe only 2000miles a year (road tripping etc...), so from that perspective, it will probably have rusted away before I have to replace the rotors again.

I know the Toyota/BMW combo is definitly not everyones cup of tea, I originally wanted to put an 2.8l M52 into it but after finding out they cost twice as much as a good japanese engine I was converted.

 

[rjp325i]

Here in the desert we don't have a rust problem. My 89 is an everyday driver with just 119K miles. I bought the car in 97 with 39K miles on the odometer. Last year I did my second brake job on the car. At that time I also installed Stainless steel brake lines. You should consider that too if you haven't already done so. The two inboard ones by the diff can be a bear if you do not have a lift and crowfoot sockets. The others I did in my garage but the 2 inboard ones I did at a friends house because he has a lift in his garage. At the same time we changed out the springs,struts, shocks, and mounts. I should have done the sway bars then too but waited and laid on my back on the garage floor and did them with my son. I'm getting too old for this lying on my back stuff. My car is also a red one and you can see it as a runner up in the 2002 "MY BMW" photo contest run by Bavarian Autosport at www.bavauto.com. The picture was done before the suspension upgrades and the addition of a front lip spoiler. It will be interesting to see how your project works out. Keep us up to date. Most of my experience before I became involved with BMWs was with American iron, Corvette small blocks into early Plymouths and 1960s supercharged Chrysler 300s putting out over 500hp back then. You've got a very curious audience now. An M52 engine would have required you to get an ECU from a 1995 M50 as well as several other expensive parts so a total M50 is almost always the best way to go if that were your choice. 1996 and later emissions setups in the states made the swap expensive. Good luck. By the way 12-15K miles a year is normal here. I did over 2700 miles just driving from New York to Las Vegas,NV.

Bob

 

[Kether]

I'm hell on car parts... I do about 30,000 miles a year, give or take about 3,000.