bin laden is an idiot

Abdoman · Apr 17, 2004

jszar - I completely understand what you are saying. The problem that I have found is so many Christians have never read the Bible, let alone the people that have posted on this discussion. I have read the Bible, cover to cover, several times. I am no expert on religion, but I am able to choose my opinion based on the Bible instead of other peoples actions or words.

In Cosmos situation above, I don't believe that either one of them will go to heaven. I believe that it's a situation of morality and guy #1 never had it and never will. As for guy #2, we all make bad decisions and that is his decision, then he must pay for his actions and beliefs. Just as in the world, I might make a choice for a good belief, but it could turn out all wrong. Then I would have to pay for my "bad" choice. God gave all a choice, free will to make our decisions.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, I just would like to see an educated opinion instead of just empty words.

jszar · Apr 17, 2004

according to the christian religion, what cosmos said is correct. completely.

Abdoman · Apr 17, 2004

No, it's not. For every verse you can show me he is right, I can show one that he is wrong.

Just look at Matthew 5:19.

Bryan330i · Apr 17, 2004

I have an interesting real-life murder case that I would be interesting in getting opinions as to what some of you may view and the perpetrators fate.

I had some problems about 10 years back because I spoke so openly with CBS about the personal character of the person that I strongly feel committed the crime. There were treats of lawsuits and a big mess because it was thought that I may be “tarnishing” the reputation of such an upstanding “murderer”. Therefore, I will just give some brief facts.

Someone very close to me (immediate family) was brutally murdered. I do not believe that the person that committed the crime had ever done such a thing in the past. However, I had witness far less than upstanding behavior in the past and a definite propensity toward violence.

To make a long story short, my life was forever changed, my family’s life was forever changed, and will certainly NEVER be the same again. There was a long trial filled with theatrics, prosecution and police blunders, and the end result is that nobody is in prison for this crime.

Today there is a free person responsible for a horrific murder living and enjoying life. I can only hold out hope for judgment of this person at another time and place.

This is a true story and is completely factual, aside from the fact that there were no witnesses to the crime, but just take my word that the person actually committed the crime and take this as truth. What do you view as the fate of this murderer?

Bryan330i · Apr 17, 2004

PS-One more fact, there was no fight, nothing was provoked, and there was complete innocence on the part of my murdered family member. The act was purely unprovoked violence and murder.

wood_e · Apr 17, 2004

Big Daddy said:

Big Daddy,

I was not alive during vietnam... I was wrong for comparing the two. Theres really nothing to compare Iraq to. I still think we never should've gone into Iraq in the first place, but right now there's no easy solution.

I guess the comparison was to point a finger... and we all do that from time to time. Maybe my oppinions should be kept to myself. Sorry if you felt offended.

jszar · Apr 17, 2004

Matthew 5:19 has nothing to do with anything we are talking about. check yourself to make sure you wrote that down write. but as far as the christian/baptist religeon goes, it does not matter what you do during your life. if you are truly apologetic, and truly believe that Christ died on the cross at calvary for your sins as well as the sins of the world, and you confess that to the lord, you WILL go to heaven. even if you murder or do things after you've accepted the lord as your savior, you cannot lose your salvation. verses in the bible will seem to contradict each other at times, thats why unless you study it reguarly, and know it quite well, you cannot argue certain things/facts.

bryan - as to the fate of the murderer, i doubt he was christian at the time, but its possible. if he was, or if he has changed his life around and believes in christ, and has asked for forgiveness of that, then he will go to heaven, no doubts. BUT! if he was truly repentent when he goes/went to god and asked for forgiveness, he would have been convicted to turn himself in. so if he doesnt turn himself/herself in, then i dont beleieve he will. if he/she was truly apaologetic, and truly a christian, that person WOULD be so compelled to confess the crime, and you'd know if that happend. thats my take on it. you MUST be truly sincere when confessing your wrongdoings when going before the lord, otherwise you are just tricking yourself into thinking you are saved.

Abdoman · Apr 18, 2004

Sorry, read Matthew 5:17-20. Also Matthew 7:21-23

Only God knows what is in your heart. Someone on his deathbed saying "I believe", that lived a life full of sin that did not believe his entire life?

Only God know his heart, as for me, I don't believe that can happen. The thing is is that you must truly believe. If you truly believe you don't do those things. You don't suddenly have a true revelation right before you die, you have them when you live. (Matthew 5:20). I believe that you cannot have belief without acts.

jsar - I could debate this with you forever. I understand and respect your point of view and we could debate this for a very long time. I respect your interpretation of the Bible. But that is specifically my point - each one of us should develop our own interpretation by reading the Bible.

Bryan - I agree with jszar. Everyone sins, but Jesus died to allow us forgiveness of our sins.

epj3 · Apr 18, 2004

CosmosBlack said:

Thats what i was trying to say -- abdoman you didnt understand what i said. I wasnt saying that guy 1 WAS better, i said in the eyes of other christians he is a better person.

epj3 · Apr 18, 2004

Abdoman said:

So now you're saying you dont accept other religions? Do you think jewish people are making a bad decision by being jewish? It's their religion, and to them you are making a bad decision being christian.

So guy #2 in that situation was a VERY good person, say he was almost 'saint quality'... but never became a christian -- you're saying he's making a bad decision by not choosing christianiaty over judiasm or any other religion? I dont think so... I think you need to think your views over. Think logically for once, not religiously.

Abdoman · Apr 18, 2004

Of course the Jewish community believes that Christians are making a bad choice.
And you? What is your choice? Not to believe in anything? Then do you think I am making a bad decision by living my life as a Christian? How about the Jews and the Moslems? (Israel, Iraq, Iran, Palestine)

Did you read my post? Do I accept other religion? Of course. I have many friends that are muslim. Do I think that they are practicing the wrong religion? Yes. If everyone is going to heaven, then why even practice religion? How about people who practice Satanism? Are they going to heaven? Is that logical? Is it logical to think that we developed from a sludge? If it is to you, then you are thinking logically. If I don't believe it, then I think it is illogical.

Websters defines it as:
1. Of, relating to, in accordance with, or of the nature of logic.
2. Based on earlier or otherwise known statements, events, or conditions;
reasonable: Rain was a logical expectation, given the time of year.
3. Reasoning or capable of reasoning in a clear and consistent manner.

I am thinking very logically for any person who has read the Bible and believes the events happened. Just as the Jews believe in the Old Testament, the Muslims in the Koran. You have to believe in something to develop logic.

epj, What do you believe? I think it is very illogical to think that because there are a few hypocrites, you think all Christians are bad.

jszar · Apr 18, 2004

i dont like the word "religion"...to me, it isnt such a thing. i believe that there is a God, and i give him the credit and glory through what i accomplish. i dont call that "practicing religion" because it comes naturally to me. by saying thaty you practice religion, i think more of budhist or muslum duties, like meditating and/or lighting candles etc, more-so following thousands of years of tradition, thats practicing religion to me.

my "religion" (what i believe) tells me that know one is righteous, no one is good. we all have a sin nature, and we are all going to screw up for the majority of the time. but if we acknowledge that there is only one god that could have put this world together and create every piece of life on it, and that he gave his son as the sacrifice for all our wrongs, then we will be saved, and that can never be taken away. if you are truly a christian, than you will have a desire to tell others what you know now, and your life will be changed dramatically. you dont HAVE to go to church, you dont HAVE to pray, but you should want to. you should want a better relationship with the lord. and you should try (such as times like this) to tell others what you beklieve and why, they may not agree, but it isnt my place to make them change, thats the individuals choice..between themself and god.

epj3 · Apr 18, 2004

Abdoman said:

I would have to say christian, becuase that's what I was raised as, but I, thinking logically and realistically, want someone to prove it to me. Kind of like that topic a while ago about that mini cooper robot - some thought it was real some knew it was fake -- if it WASNT fake, those people who thought it was fake would have to have it proven to them (ie on news or in real life) but those who believed in it from the beginning will just be like "told ya so"

I've been baptised, went through confirmation (methodist) in 8th and 9th grade which took a lot of my personal time those 2 years, and like i said earlier I've done so much stuff at church in my life -- but nobody has really given me a reason to really believe in God, I blame it on my church mostly, but if you come to think about it, how does it make sense for god to have created everything -- who or what created god? Did he just appear or something? There is scientific evidence of the truth in evolution and how bacteria can evolve (bacteria created by numerous chemical reactions, explosions, etc.) into something like us...

I think a lot the bible teaches is simply about morals taught mostly by Jesus -- as what a group of people thought were good morals. It got passed down, changed, etc. over the generations. The problem I have is it always praises god for creating everything... but how does ANYONE know theres a god? Virgin Mary seeing a ghost/angel before she gave birth to Jesus - how do we know the truth in that? All christians believe that happened to Mary, but almost ALL ghost tales are fake or are blown out of proportion by someone. You see the recent news about that lamb in one of the Middle eastern countries that the community thought had the symbol of islam on it? You might think that is silly, but is it any different than saying Mary saw an angel?? They thought it was word from Allah. Maybe there was a Thunderstorm, lightning stuck and the wind made a noise -- and Mary said it was an Angel (probably after Jesus was born).

Just becuase this was 2004+ years ago, doesnt mean people did the same things that people do now.

epj3 · Apr 18, 2004

BTW i'm not saying the christian religion is bad or christians are bad -- if i were held at gunpoint i'd be saying "save me god" or something of the like... i'm just trying to figure out at this point WHAT I believe, and almost all people at my age are saying the same thing.

Bryan330i · Apr 18, 2004

jszar said:

bryan - as to the fate of the murderer, i doubt he was christian at the time, but its possible. if he was, or if he has changed his life around and believes in christ, and has asked for forgiveness of that, then he will go to heaven, no doubts. BUT! if he was truly repentent when he goes/went to god and asked for forgiveness, he would have been convicted to turn himself in. so if he doesnt turn himself/herself in, then i dont beleieve he will. if he/she was truly apaologetic, and truly a christian, that person WOULD be so compelled to confess the crime, and you'd know if that happend. thats my take on it. you MUST be truly sincere when confessing your wrongdoings when going before the lord, otherwise you are just tricking yourself into thinking you are saved.

I am not arguing the point but it just seems too easy. Commit murder or whatever a person wants then be saved if they so choose. I hope it is not so easy.

frolf · Apr 18, 2004

skandalous said:

true that

Abdoman · Apr 18, 2004

epj - read the book Darwin's Black Box. The book is very boring, if you can make it through it indicates some scientific proof.

Bryan, I hope so too, but forgiveness is a large part of Christianity. I could never put myself or understand what you went through.

epj3 · Apr 18, 2004

Abdoman said:

If the library has it maybe I will (though boring stuff is, well, boring....)

Theres some things I could forgive someone for doing but a Lot more things I couldnt.

MyHarley · Apr 18, 2004

What about the "sinner" hanging on the cross next to Jesus? He confessed his sins, asked for forgiveness, expressed his belief and Jesus told him he has a place in heaven......that was a last moment decision.........

Bryan330i · Apr 19, 2004

Sometimes it is just so hard to imagine that someone like my grandmother, a moral woman that had me drive all the way back across town after she purchased new tile for her house, because the salesman forgot to include sales tax on the order. We drove about 17 miles IMMEDIATELY after she realized the $125.00 tax was not included and she did not want him to get in trouble. Calling the store was not good enough, nor paying the tax when the tile was delivered and installed.

Actions like this were not uncommon, and I admit I find it difficult to understand that someone can ALWAYS live an upstanding life and another can murder someone with a bright future ahead yet both face the same end.

bin laden is an idiot

2

2

2

2

2

2

2

2

Senior Member

Senior Member

2

2

Senior Member

Senior Member

2

2

2

Senior Member

2

2