bumpy ride

[Chesty Bonds]

Chesty, have you driven an X3? If you haven't your review is meaningless. As an X3 owner with 6,500 miles, this is a great car. It handles superbly, looks great, and is a quality constructed vehicle. I have not had one moment of buyers remorse in my 6 months of ownership. Remember folks, it's an suv. It's not an M3. I think in an era of flash and bling, the quality, sparse interior looks awesome. Can't say enough good things about this vehicle!

Mate i know it 'aint no M3 but i was merely using the example of a stiffly-sprung car that still had suppleness over rough and undulating roads. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why an SUV can't strike a good ride/handling balance. The X5 does it very well indeed. Why doesn't the X3? Simple. It's cheaply built and its cheaply designed. In answer to your question, no i havent driven an X3 but i have ridden in one and i thought it felt cheap, flimsy, and nasty. The sparse interior and dodgy plastics (usually a BMW strongpoint - just look at the high quality of the dash plastics on an E46) reflected the cynicism of modern cars (and their manufacturers) and, to me, the X3 is a deviation from the reputation of quality and refinement naturally associated with BMW.

 

[MrElussive]

At the risk of sounding like an arsehole i have to disagree. The risk of any modern 4WD tipping in an emergency situation is virtually negligible. We have a Land Rover Discovery which is hardly the pinnacle of handling dynamics yet shows no tendency to roll, or lean for that matter.

You say that even luxury brands such as Mercedes and BMW make SUV's that are centred on capability first and luxury second. Why, then, do these SUV's have such atrocious off-road ability? My Land Rover has live-axles front and rear and has a centre diff-lock which makes it ideal for off road use. The X3 and the ML? They have neither. The M3 has stiff suspension that is firm yet supple and the cheapness of the X3 has shone through because it cannot achieve this handling balance. Even the standard 3-series is relatively tightly sprung but this, again, does not mean that the ride is shockingly uncompromising, as it is in the X3. The X5 was a far better engineering feat in this regard and the only reason that i see why the X3 fails in terms of suspension capability is because of what it really is: a cheap, unsophisticated, badly-built, cynical, money-making excercise designed to sell huge numbers on the prestige of its badge, and i'm not fooled.

You're not an arsehole at all, everybody's free to their own opinion. This is just a discussion we are having.

I never actually stated that the luxury SUV's are good off-road. Some of them are, some of them are not. The ones that are not good off-road make absolutely no apologies for it and that is perfectly fine. Most people do not take their luxury SUV's off-road and merely buy them for the practicality, better viewability (a lot of people like sitting "high up"), and perhaps even for the whole SUV image. Land Rover is a company known for building off-road vehicles and it is very evident. I have been in and driven a Discovery many times (a couple of friends have them) and I think it is among the worst SUV's in terms of body roll.
Come here and drive my ML500, I guarantee you will be surprised at how well it handles on the road. I can take turns at very fast speeds and I don't have to worry about the potholes and road irregularities. This solid handling comes with a very firm ride, though. The vehicle is smooth as butter over smooth roads, but once you hit some road irregularities, they are kind of jarring.
The X3 is a superb SUV that offers unbelievable handling. You cannot compare an X3 to an M3. Like I said, the M3 is a regular car that is low to the ground. It has a much better center of gravity so it is naturally much easier to make it handle very well while still offer decent ride comfort. The X3 is an SUV with traditionally higher ground clearance compared to a normal car. Also, it is MUCH heavier than the M3 and is similar in form and shape to a wagon (which doesn't help hanlding either). But if you drive an X3 or X5 (either one with Sport Package), I guarantee you will be flat out shocked at how well they handle. Again, this superb handling comes with a VERY stiff ride. I have a few friends with X5's and from my experience (all of them have Sport Package), the ride quality is decent up front, although sitting in the back is like riding in the back of a school bus. Bumps and other road irregularities will jar you completely out of your seat. This is VERY different compared to what BMW's are known for (a superb balance of ride comfort and handling) but I think with the X vehicles -being as tall as they are- BMW basically did the best they could to give it this balance, but they ultimately wanted traditional BMW handling over traditional BMW ride comfort.

Again, your opinion is your opinion and my opinion is my opinion. As long as we don't take it personally, it's all good.

 

[Chesty Bonds]

Yeah of course i can understand what you're saying and there is certainly merit to it. I just have to say that i wasn't really comparing the X3 and M3, just highlighting the fact that stiff suspension doesn't have to mean a crashy ride.

With regards to my Land Rover, it has absolutely NO bodyroll through the twisty stuff (although, i must admit, it is equipped with ACE ) and is fantastic off-road. I don't think we will ever agree on this subject but that's good - we both have merit to our arguments. I guess my underlying problem is that BMW excuse the harsh ride of the X3 as a sacrifice for handling but i see it as more of an attempt to shroud the fact that the X3's suspension isn't really up to the job. Like you say, on butter-smooth roads it handles brilliantly but most cars do in such situations and, when you think about it, how many challenging, exciting roads are really like that? I would argue that there aint that many and so the measure of a great handling car, in my view, is it's ability to cope with bumps, potholes, compressions etc, etc.

Damn this thread could go on and on!

 

[MrElussive]

I've heard the ACE system works really well. I must also admit that all the Land Rovers I have experienced did not have that option.

I see your point now, regarding the ride harshness issue. But sometimes it's not the fault of the suspension but other factors. Let's take my car for example (the G35C). The handling is really great and the suspension is tight but also has enough flex to absorb the bumps. But the reason why it has an overall ride that is just very stiff and jarring is because of the massive 18" low-profile wheels. The wheels are really big and they hit all of the bumps and stuff extremely hard. When I take the ML500 over the same roads that I use normally, I am always in disbelief at how much easier the car handles the bumps (thanks to a long travel suspension and big profile wheels). It's like...when I go over some of these bumps in my G35C I think, "Damnit when are they gonna fix this stupid road!!" but when I go over the same bumps in my ML500 I think, "Is that all? Those bumps don't seem like a big deal at all".

 

[Chesty Bonds]

I've heard the ACE system works really well. I must also admit that all the Land Rovers I have experienced did not have that option.

I see your point now, regarding the ride harshness issue. But sometimes it's not the fault of the suspension but other factors. Let's take my car for example (the G35C). The handling is really great and the suspension is tight but also has enough flex to absorb the bumps. But the reason why it has an overall ride that is just very stiff and jarring is because of the massive 18" low-profile wheels. The wheels are really big and they hit all of the bumps and stuff extremely hard. When I take the ML500 over the same roads that I use normally, I am always in disbelief at how much easier the car handles the bumps (thanks to a long travel suspension and big profile wheels). It's like...when I go over some of these bumps in my G35C I think, "Damnit when are they gonna fix this stupid road!!" but when I go over the same bumps in my ML500 I think, "Is that all? Those bumps don't seem like a big deal at all".

Yep. You're quite right that tyres have a huge impact on the ride. I don't think there's much more i can say.... Good discussion though - i wish there were more like this!!!

 

[x3forskb]

My 2 Cents,.....

I own an X3 (and LOVE IT!!). Premium Package and no Sports Package.

I had an early complaint about noise coming from all 4 doors and the rear hatch. A squeeking noise over rough roads. I brought it to Bob Smith BMW (my dealer), and he took it for a test drive EXACTLY where I asked him to. They not only heard the squeek, but got it fixed in ONE visit and apologized for the inconvienience! The problem has not re-appeared and the car is great!

On the Ride...... I have owed (2) ML's (320 and 430), and a Saturn VUE (I bought this for comany use). I think the ML ride was rough!! The Saturn rode better than the ML, granted the ML was a MUCH better car, but in RIDE COMFORT, the Saturn was pretty good. But the X3 BLOWS ALL THESE AWAY.

My Wife has given me her MBZ to drive while she enjoys my X3, I think I am not going to see much of it for a while, she loves it as well. I got to drive it for a WHOLE MONTH before this happened!!!!

Again, Just mu 2 Cents

 

[Chesty Bonds]

I had an early complaint about noise coming from all 4 doors and the rear hatch. A squeeking noise over rough roads.

I'm glad you love your BMW (don't we all!) but this is another thing that i'm on about. Sqeaks in the cabin NEVER used to happen on BM's when they were brand new. Why is it starting to creep into all their models now??? I mean, all FOUR doors...

 

[chuck abbott]

Honda reliability,six disc Cd,and a navigation system second to none. However, it did not drive like my BMW or the many other BMW's I have owned, so I am convinced, you get what you pay for.
I changed the oil the other day, and came out from under the X3 with the knowledge that they had done just as good a job of engineering underneath as they had done everywhere else on the vehicle.
Chris Walrod mentioned run flat tires. My vehicle doesn't have them, I have a spare. Finally Chesty, before insulting a fine vehicle, I suggest you buy one first. regards, Chuck Abbott

 

[chuck abbott]

After reading Chesty Bonds' remarks it struck me that he sounds just like FOX news reporters. They often say "I HAVE HEARD" and then go on to express their own narrow view on world affairs. Chesty, before insulting this fine vehicle, I suggest you buy one first.
Last August I traded my 02 Acura 3.2 TL-S for my X3. The Acura had everything, heated seats, heated mirrors, nav system (second to none), a five disc Cd player, a 260hp engine, door openers, dimming rear mirror, 26/30mpg, moon roof, you name it , it had it, along with the famous Honda reliability. It had 11,280 miles on it when I traded, and I am sure the question a lot of people would ask is, why did you trade for a BMW which had no heated seats, no nav system, a one disc Cd, relatively poor milage, and an engine producing 35 less hp, and paying another $21k to boot. Well, the answer is that you would have had to have been around as long as I have, buying different cars and always coming back to BMW's. There is a difference, and if you don't feel it when you drive one, then perhaps you should buy something else.
For me, I realize that if you want the best there is in a driving experience, you have to drive a BMW, and you have to pay for it. I have given up on trying to find a vehicle that will give me the same amount of satisfaction, and I'm prepeared to pay the price, period.

I have just returned from a 4,230-mile two-week trip in my X3. Going from Colorado to the West coast and up into Canada and then across to Alberta and down through the Glacier National Park back to Colorado.

Parts of my trip were on dirt/gravel roads, and I can tell you if there was a chance to make the car rattle this was it. This vehicle is fast, comfortable, and solid.

Chesty, this vehicle won this year's ALCan Winter Rally, and as you may not know much about winter conditions in Ausie land let me tell you. The rally goes way up into the Artic circle and temperatures can get to -50 degrees F. In winning this rally, the X3's were driven by a bunch of BMW enthusiasts, and beat out a SUBARU company sponsored team.

The reason for the hard ride is the low profile tires, and I can tell you the Acura was not much better. I would like to run 235 60 R16 on this car, but they don't make a wheel to fit over the brake system. I have gone the other way and I am running on 235 65 R17 rubber.
This throws of the mileage and mpg figures, but I can live with it. The ride is a lot smoother.

Chris Walrod says something about not built by BMW? My vehicle was built in GRAZ Austria, and that is close enough to Munich for me.

Finaly, "Keep of the median" had it right, Chesty needs to get some miles in with this vehicle before opening his mouth. Regards, Chuck Abbott

 

[Average Jae]

i have an x3 for a loaner coming up in about a week, when i take my car in for service and fixinig a huge ass crack on my windshield. so i'll get back and report it then ^^

as for rough ride, you sort of have to expect it going into an suv. for the 2 to 3+ ton beasts to act properly on the road, something must be done about the suspension: mainly stiff it up. especially if you want the said beast to handle in a bmw-esq fashion. my parents' x5 has a really stiff ride, but it handles well. they used to lease an LX470, and that had a really nice cushy ride, but it was slow and had quite a bit of body roll when "pushed." (when something pulls under .7gs can you really push it?)

chesty: you mention luxury SUVs not having off road capability. it's because majority, think like 95% of the said SUVs will ever be in an off road situations, so you can't make the lack of that option a qualifier. SUVs are the "new" rolling status symbols in america, i mean porsche got into the frey and kicking butt! altho we'll have to see how suv sales suffer after the current spike in the oil prices..

and BMW being overpriced? is that news?

 

[chuck abbott]

where is my posting of this afternoon ?

 

[Chesty Bonds]

After reading Chesty Bonds' remarks it struck me that he sounds just like FOX news reporters. They often say "I HAVE HEARD" and then go on to express their own narrow view on world affairs. Chesty, before insulting this fine vehicle, I suggest you buy one first.

Finaly, "Keep of the median" had it right, Chesty needs to get some miles in with this vehicle before opening his mouth. Regards, Chuck Abbott

I'd just like to say that your response seemed fairly vindictive and insulting. Never at any stage have i posted any threads with the intention of offending anybody else. Go and read my previous threads if you dont believe me.

Yes, "i have heard", and read, and been in an X3 and, contrary to what you might presume, i'm no idiot. I know what a good car is when i see one. Also, my appreciation (bordering on obsession of) for BMW is unsurpassed so i'm not insulting towards their cars. It's called constructive criticism and if you actually read the posts then you will see that it's possible to have a discussion about these things and have constructive outcomes. The day people stop offering this criticism towards BMW (and all the manufacturers for that matter) is the day the motor-industry shrivels up and dies.

I'm fully aware that BMW make exceptional cars and when we compare them against most other makes they put them to shame. On this point i am quite sure. What i tend to do is compare BMWs with BMWs and, i'm sorry, but the current breed of BMWs are nowhere near the standards of the outgoing models. My E30 has covered nearly 130,000 kms and there is not the faintest hint of a rattle or squeak anywhere. We used to have an E23 7 series which covered nearly 250,000kms and the build and reliability remained unsurpassed in the 13 years that we had it. How about many of the X3's? How about many of the new 7's? It's squeak and rattle abound and as far as i'm concerned it's not up to the standards that we expect from BMW. Furthermore, a great driving experience does not mean the car has to ride like a horse-cart over irregularly-surfaced roads accompanied by annoying rattles and various other audible distractions. Get into an E34 5 series and then you might have some understanding of what i'm talking about.

My family has had 12 BMWs over about 25 years, so don't lecture me about what i do and don't know when it comes to the Bavarian carmaker. Try to keep your opinions at least mildly objective and then perhaps more people will consider your views.

 

[Chesty Bonds]

chesty: you mention luxury SUVs not having off road capability. it's because majority, think like 95% of the said SUVs will ever be in an off road situations, so you can't make the lack of that option a qualifier. SUVs are the "new" rolling status symbols in america, i mean porsche got into the frey and kicking butt! altho we'll have to see how suv sales suffer after the current spike in the oil prices..

and BMW being overpriced? is that news?

Yeah and the Porsche Cayenne actually handles itself very well offroad, like a Range Rover.

 

[chuck abbott]

Chesty,
Sorry that you find my observations vindictive and insulting. However, I also found it insulting too for you to make such broad unsubstanciated condemnation of the X3 vehicles.
You mention your experience with BMW's, which from your age, I suspect, goes back about 4/5 years of driving. I have been driving BMW's for the past 55 years and felt your criticism was unjust and hearsay, and therefor needed a strong rebuttal.
You once again make unsubstantiated remarks when you say, quote: "rides like a horse and cart over irregular surfaced roads, accompanied by anoying rattles and various other audible distractions" end quote.
My vehicle has no rattles, and I don"t comprehend what you are alluding to, when you say "various other audible distractions" - I just feel it's unfair to make this kind of statement without either owning or driven a vehicle for a good number of miles. I feel that it is not objective but hearsay blabber.
I live in the mountains of Colorado, and quite often drive on dirt roads. The ride is hard, but the road handling with the four wheel drive system is outstanding, and I think that if you want a BMW SAV that really moves out and handles on the open road, then you have to accept some compromises on the dirt.
However, please accept this olive branch,- I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but do please try to be factual. I guess the remarks that you made regarding the build of the X3 touched a raw spot with me. I am a very critical car owner, and I find the fit and finish of the X3 to be upto the best from BMW. I find the interior to be very well done, I like the materials used and feel it represents the ruggedness that BMW wanted to express, without the usual glitz that we find in SUV's. Once again accept my apologies and good riding. Regards, Chuck Abbott

 

[Chesty Bonds]

Yeah no worries, I accept your apology. However, just because I'm 20 doesn't mean i don't have much experience with BMWs - believe me i really do. The first time i EVER drove a car was when i was 6 years old in the E23 (my dad was in the car, of course).

I accept that you love your car and i reckon that's great. There should be more people like you and I. I just hate to see BMW do things which i perceive to be detrimental to the company's fortune and reputation and in all honesty i just feel that way about the X3. I'm not out to trash your car or anything like that, i just wanted to say what i thought was the case and if you disagree then that is fine. It's all in the name of healthy discussion.

BTW, i just spoke to a friend of my dad's who has an X5 4.4i and he said it was without a doubt the best car he has ever owned (he's a real estate agent so he's had everything from 7's to S-classes to Porsches). In this respect i can certainly see a lot of similarities between the X5 and X3 and as long as you like it then you'd be a happy man. I guess, personally, i'm just a little disappointed by the car.

 

[Average Jae]

Yeah and the Porsche Cayenne actually handles itself very well offroad, like a Range Rover.

i forgot about that when i made the post. ^^;; but my point was here in America, not too many of the porsche owners or other luxury SUV owners will actually take the ride off road, subjecting their 50k+ plush rides to paint chips, whether their cars can handle it or not. i mean, the X5 4.6i or 4.8i now, and you get high perf tires, as stock, even the 4.4i has an option to get high perf 19s. so you really can't go anywhere outside of nice paved roads, unless you get M&S tires.

and even if the car is capable of doing a lot of off roading, w/out the right tire combo you'll be stuck anyway. same thing in dry pavement, to get the highest perf you need something better than M&S tires. (again i'm basing this on America: how many of these folks would actually go out keep an extra set, and change them as needs arise?

and due to exploding demand of SUV over here, it's no longer niche market, and is now niche markets are appearing w/in the SUV segment, and for some of the segment, off roading capability is not necessary, so why make one? just because it's a SUV? who said there's a check list of things it must do? it's basiclaly a wagon sitting tall and it's usually a awd setup, altho there are fwd and rwd varients.. so you can't fault luxury makers for having attrocious off road capabilities. it sells, owners like it, and if one doesn't like it, there will be a couple that fits their needs, end of story.

 

[subman]

April 2004 X3 - (manual, sport, all packages, sport suspension deleted at extra cost, nav., sirius, servotronic, etc.) - Having read about 15 articles on the X3's stiff suspension I decided to order my X3 with the sport option but deleting the sport suspension (keeping the 18 wheels and sport seats, etc.).

Since this is my 4th new BMW to date (first one was the 2002 - manual) I have been very pleased with X3>> the ride is very sporty on corners, firm but not too firm and overall the vehicle has been just a total delight.