GAS Milage? What Gas Milage?

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#21
SORRY - DON'T HAVE NO CONFIDENT WITH LAND ROVERS

Last British car maker collapses Posted by MSN 4/8/2005


MG Rover, which built the original Minis, Land Rovers and MGBs, abruptly shuts down. It's the final straw for the British-owned auto industry.

By MSN Money wire reports

Cash-strapped car manufacturer MG Rover Group -- the last major British-owned car manufacturer -- succumbed to its mounting debts Friday and filed for a form of bankruptcy protection after a deal with a Chinese automaker fell through and a government loan was not granted.

Phoenix Venture Holdings, the parent company of Rover, said it had asked PricewaterhouseCoopers to take over administration of the company after it was forced to suspend production at its British factory Thursday when suppliers -- spooked by reports the Shanghai Automotive Industrial Co. was pulling out of a takeover deal -- stopped providing goods.

MG Rover confirmed Friday that the talks with SAIC in China had come to an end and that the negotiating team, including Rover Chairman John Towers, had left Shanghai. SAIC had reportedly insisted that MG Rover be able to demonstrate it was solvent at the point of signing a deal and for the following two years.Banks and insurers
check your credit.
So should you.



'The English Patient'
A British icon dating back to 1905, MG Rover has, in its various guises, produced some classic British cars alongside the mini, including the Morris Oxford, the Austin Seven, the MGB sports car and the cheap and cheerful Mini Metro.

Rover was sold to Germany's BMW in the 1990s -- when the German media dubbed it "The English Patient'' due to its poor financial health -- but returned to British ownership when BMW sold it to holding company Phoenix four years ago for 10 pounds plus costs.

Since then, however, Rover has struggled, and many say it was always likely to fail.

"Rover needed major investment and new models very quickly if it was to survive but, since the BMW years, Rover has not had it,'' said auto industry expert Tom Donnelly from nearby Coventry University.

"When Phoenix came in, BMW had already cherry-picked the company …'' he told Reuters. BMW retained the rights to make cars under the revered Mini name, and it sold the Land Rover division to Ford.

Other than a few niche makers who hand-build sports cars, there are no British-owned carmakers left besides Rover. Ford also owns two other historic British marques, Jaguar and Aston Martin. BMW owns Rolls Royce. Volkswagen owns Bentley.

Bad for Blair, worse for workers
The troubles at Rover, which will affect 6,000 workers at the company's Longbridge plant in central England and thousands more at companies that supply the factory with parts, come at a sensitive time for the government, with a general election just four weeks away.

Prime Minister Tony Blair talked by telephone with Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao on Wednesday night and government officials had offered Rover a $188 million bridge loan to keep the company solvent to assist the deal.

"This is a terrible day for the work force of MG Rover and their families and for their suppliers," said Trade and Industry Secretary Patricia Hewitt, adding that the government would work with unions and Rover's future administrators to try to secure future car production at the factory.

St. Modwen Properties, the company that owns most of Longbridge, said it appeared certain the site would be turned into something other than a car plant.

"They've told us to turn up Monday,'' said 43-year-old Ashley Wilkes, who has worked at Longbridge for 18 years. "They've just told us we're entitled to 280 pounds ($524) for each year's service, up to the maximum of 12 years. It feels terrible.''
 
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#23
Stitch said:
SORRY - DON'T HAVE NO CONFIDENT WITH LAND ROVERS

Last British car maker collapses Posted by MSN 4/8/2005


MG Rover, which built the original Minis, Land Rovers and MGBs, abruptly shuts down. It's the final straw for the British-owned auto industry.''
I don't think this applies to Land Rovers. They are under Ford now. But I don't really trust Land Rovers much either after driving my Freelander for the past 3 years. I think they are cool and extremely capable vehicles but I've had too many problems. I had more problems in the first 6months with the Freelander than I had in 8 years with my Honda Civic.
 
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#25
Chesty Bonds said:
Um, I'm really not trying to start an argument here but I have to say that I disagree with this statement.

If you have a heavy car - such as a 4WD - the thing you least want to do is put a powerful engine in it if you're after good fuel economy. The Land Rover V8 is a classic example of a more powerful engine in a heavy car. Believe me when I say that it's fuel consumption is disgusting.

That is not always true.

The gearing on many large SUVs is so low that a larger, more powerful engine would allow them to use taller gearing and would actually improve fuel economy in the real world. The manufacturers gear the SUVs low so they can accelerate more like a car from a stop. Fuel economy suffers dramatically.

A few years back GM was looking at producing a V12 Escalade that would have gotten better fuel economy than the V8 for the reasons I have stated above.
 
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#26
Kirby - Nice to meet somebody in my area. I live near West Chester, PA.

BTW, I was one of those engineers, who involved in the design of highways/freeways like Rt 202, Rt 1 and ... Eagle Stadium, which is standing right next to I-95 now.
 
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#27
Stitch said:
Kirby - Nice to meet somebody in my area. I live near West Chester, PA.

BTW, I was one of those engineers, who involved in the design of highways/freeways like Rt 202, Rt 1 and ... Eagle Stadium, which is standing right next to I-95 now.
Isn't West Chester where Bam Margera is from?
 
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#28
brahtw8 said:
That is not always true.

The gearing on many large SUVs is so low that a larger, more powerful engine would allow them to use taller gearing and would actually improve fuel economy in the real world. The manufacturers gear the SUVs low so they can accelerate more like a car from a stop. Fuel economy suffers dramatically.

A few years back GM was looking at producing a V12 Escalade that would have gotten better fuel economy than the V8 for the reasons I have stated above.
Yeah to an extent I can see that you're right. I think I have a point too, but I'm coming from the angle that a small 4 banger in a 4WD will have better fuel economy than a V8 lugging the same body. I guess, in terms of the X3 that doesn't really apply... I'm coming from the analogy of the Land Rover.

I'm prepared to admit I've used the wrong analogy here. Damn that hurt [hihi]
 
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#29
Rob V said:
I don't think this applies to Land Rovers. They are under Ford now. But I don't really trust Land Rovers much either after driving my Freelander for the past 3 years. I think they are cool and extremely capable vehicles but I've had too many problems. I had more problems in the first 6months with the Freelander than I had in 8 years with my Honda Civic.
hey now.. The freelander was LR's failure, but it is true the land rovers are bad on realibility, but they will still run when broken =D. And it is an incredible car offroad, you will really not find many other cars with the 4x4 capabilities it has. And yeah like rob said LR belongs to Ford now, Rover is a seperate mark from GB..
 
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#30
Buddies

that is what I meant, "when a team of dedicated individuals makes a commitment to act as one ... the sky's the limit." even if it is broken.

Guess we are all nice to our Buddies! [drinking]
 
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#31
Stitch said:
Kirby - Nice to meet somebody in my area. I live near West Chester, PA.

BTW, I was one of those engineers, who involved in the design of highways/freeways like Rt 202, Rt 1 and ... Eagle Stadium, which is standing right next to I-95 now.
The 202/422/76 interchange is SO much better now. I was at a concert and saw the stadium under construction, but I haven't been by it in quite a while.
Those are certainly some big CE projects!
 
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#32
Chesty, I hear what you are saying, but it is a different ball game when it comes to SUV's. SUV's typically feature shorter gears and a shorter final drive, and paired with the more powerful engine, it is not a surprise that the more powerful engine delivers better fuel economy. This is even an issue with the X5 3.0 vs the X5 4.4. Many X5 3.0 owners experience shitty fuel economy simply because they are making the engine work too hard when driving in city environments, whereas the 4.4 8-cylinder motor does not have to work as hard. A good example would be the Mercedes G500 vs the Mercedes G55 AMG (the NA motor, before it had the supercharger). The G55 AMG has the bigger motor but delivered better fuel economy than the G500.
 
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#34
Well, I regularly get 22-24 mpg, driving a 2.5 6-speed at an average of 40 mph (19,000 miles on the odo). And while I try to keep the surface of my drink parallel to the road and perpendicular to my smile at all times that I am carrying skittish passengers, I definitely do not keep the RPMs between 2000-3000. More like 3000-5000. My X3 talks to me much more clearly when she's moving FAST. Listen to the engine note at 5000 rpm and tell me she's not raring to go. Try it on a winding country road on a warm, moonlit Spring night with the windows down and the moonroof all the way open. Drive this baby hard -- the harder you push, the more she gives back. She'll treat you nicely when you're gentle, but she'll only get passionate when you get primal... I suspect the driver who won the Alcan Rally in the X3 would agree.
 
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#35
FatherOfWolfEyes said:
Well, I regularly get 22-24 mpg, driving a 2.5 6-speed at an average of 40 mph (19,000 miles on the odo). And while I try to keep the surface of my drink parallel to the road and perpendicular to my smile at all times that I am carrying skittish passengers, I definitely do not keep the RPMs between 2000-3000. More like 3000-5000. My X3 talks to me much more clearly when she's moving FAST. Listen to the engine note at 5000 rpm and tell me she's not raring to go. Try it on a winding country road on a warm, moonlit Spring night with the windows down and the moonroof all the way open. Drive this baby hard -- the harder you push, the more she gives back. She'll treat you nicely when you're gentle, but she'll only get passionate when you get primal... I suspect the driver who won the Alcan Rally in the X3 would agree.
You just found a new companion! Relax more and have more fun with her!
 
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#36
Stitch said:
You just found a new companion! Relax more and have more fun with her!
You're right that I have a new companion: and I can enjoy her in relaxed fashion, especially when I'm carrying passengers who might not enjoy my spirited driving style. But I really enjoy her company more when we're galloping rather than trotting; paradoxically, I find fast driving much more relaxing and engaging than slow driving. So for me, fast and hard = fun and relaxing!

By the way, in my personal life, I am often viewed as extremely relaxed. What can I say? Perhaps I'm a frustrated race car driver waiting to emerge. [driving]
 
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#37
Gas Milage vs Fun

FatherOfWolfEyes said:
You're right that I have a new companion: and I can enjoy her in relaxed fashion, especially when I'm carrying passengers who might not enjoy my spirited driving style. But I really enjoy her company more when we're galloping rather than trotting; paradoxically, I find fast driving much more relaxing and engaging than slow driving. So for me, fast and hard = fun and relaxing!

By the way, in my personal life, I am often viewed as extremely relaxed. What can I say? Perhaps I'm a frustrated race car driver waiting to emerge. [driving]
I am with you. I am a natural born car racer. Wild all the time. [boxface] Street racing is like my basic instinct. About 2 years ago, my passengers kept reminding all the time that, "We are not in a rush!" and my roomate claimed that she had car sicks all the time after my drive.

Tool Fan - don't feel bad about your gas milage. I used up 1/4 to 1/3 tank of gas of a 325xi 05' in an hr driving to work with 40 miles just less than 2 months ago. I was in total rage [?|] and wild [chair] condition.

Now that I joined the BMWCCA, there are a real race tract for me, rather than street racing.

Stitch said:
Put a glass of water with 80% filled (no lid) in the cup holder for a year. When you drive, don't let the water spill out. Study the water - let the surface tension hold the water inside or have the water circular like a whirlpool. Try to have a grasp of the center of the gravity of the car. Remember the car in 50 front and 50 back weights already. The smoother the car you drive, the faster the car can be.
This is a one of those methods that is used to train professional car racers; giving them some foundation before they learn any new tricks. That applies to both sticky Michelin tires that grap the corners with late brake in and fast out or drifting with 4 four cheap tires in control without the bumper touching the guide rails on the winding mountain road.

So FatherOfWolfEyes - have fun.
 
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#38
I live near Lime Rock, CT, where Skip Barber runs a driving/racing school, and I've had the opportunity to be driven on the track in a Viper by a professional racer and to drive a Legend car on the autocross course myself. Exhilarating! But I've never signed up for a full driving course. Perhaps now is the right time... [idea]

At least there if I let the water spill out of the cup I won't topple over a cliff!
 
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#39
I just join BMWCCA 2 months ago. Never taken their driving courses. About that cup of water. It was some training from Japan. They are so well known for drifting.[bmwkick] However, Japanese car is just not my cup of tea.
 


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