Howard Dean rules!

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epj3 said:
I agree with wadula.

All these movements for equality are always full of hypocrites. I would give examples but people would get pissed (even though they are all true)
I am still waiting for a response on the lesbian remark. [;)]

In response to the above, I would say that the problem many civil rights groups have is the tendency for their cause to become less about equality and more about superiority or centrism. I still support the cause, but I try to do so without losing touch with the basic goal.

One thing we have to understand is that it is the natural reaction of an oppressed people to attack their oppressors. A bit dramatic, perhaps, but the reason some groups lash or demonstrate is because they feel, rightly or wrongly, that they are being attacked. On the more extreme scale, one need only consult history for numerous examples of formerly oppressed populations becoming as evil or more evil than their oppressors when they finally rise to power. It happened in South Africa, and countless other places. Part of the problem is the misconception of democracy, or more accurately the idea of democracy without protection for minority or individual rights. The current victims may have only themselves to blame, but that doesn't make it right.
 
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lesbians? what´s that?[paranoid] [hihi] j/k...

as far as i am concerned, i have nothing against gays, so i have nothing against lesbians. and of course i rather see two girls kissing than two guys.

but also for them it is valid what i said about gay movement especially for the points described by me.
 

Timmeh

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Orientation?

Gay parades are rude- Gay Day @ Disneyland is rude. Dispays like that are weak examples of people looking to simply offend. Does absolutly nothing to help any cause gays and lesbians have. Keep it to Mardi Gras or something similar. Being out of the closet doesn't come with a requirement to offend or advertise. While I don't agree with homosexuals in their practice(OUCH!!), I've never let what they do in their private life bother me , and have always had great talks and good laughs (with my old neighbor). He never "said" anything provocative once in 10 years of being neighbors. Wife thinks it's a genetic thing-who knows. If it is, can't argue with something like that; and it has been around forever-absolutely nothing new under the sun. Tim
 
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Re: Orientation?

Timmeh said:
Gay parades are rude- Gay Day @ Disneyland is rude. Dispays like that are weak examples of people looking to simply offend. Does absolutly nothing to help any cause gays and lesbians have. Keep it to Mardi Gras or something similar. Being out of the closet doesn't come with a requirement to offend or advertise. While I don't agree with homosexuals in their practice(OUCH!!), I've never let what they do in their private life bother me , and have always had great talks and good laughs (with my old neighbor). He never "said" anything provocative once in 10 years of being neighbors. Wife thinks it's a genetic thing-who knows. If it is, can't argue with something like that; and it has been around forever-absolutely nothing new under the sun. Tim
It is fairly well established in the scientific community that homosexuality is genetic. Its longstanding existence in the animal world should be enough to silence most critics, but not all - creationists probably disagree, as do others.

I ask you to consider that most homosexuals who demonstrate are not ashamed of themselves. They don't see anything wrong with what they are doing, in fact they are proud of the way they live their lives, including their intimate relationships. Certainly, there are militants among them, and the more flamboyant flaming types that I wouldn't classify as militant.

This is of course because they are people just like you and I, just as happy and just as miserable. They want to be able to speak about their lives in the same open manner as anyone else. Some of them go too far. Most of them don't.

I don't hold that against them as a class of people. I try not to see them as a class, and quite honestly I think the homosexual agenda, if such a thing exists, has changed over the years such that they do not wish to be seen as a class. So they have a parade. Sh!t, we let the Irish have a parade. [;)]
 
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Re: Re: Orientation?

brahtw8 said:
It is fairly well established in the scientific community that homosexuality is genetic. Its longstanding existence in the animal world should be enough to silence most critics, but not all - creationists probably disagree, as do others.

I ask you to consider that most homosexuals who demonstrate are not ashamed of themselves. They don't see anything wrong with what they are doing, in fact they are proud of the way they live their lives, including their intimate relationships. Certainly, there are militants among them, and the more flamboyant flaming types that I wouldn't classify as militant.

This is of course because they are people just like you and I, just as happy and just as miserable. They want to be able to speak about their lives in the same open manner as anyone else. Some of them go too far. Most of them don't.

I don't hold that against them as a class of people. I try not to see them as a class, and quite honestly I think the homosexual agenda, if such a thing exists, has changed over the years such that they do not wish to be seen as a class. So they have a parade. Sh!t, we let the Irish have a parade. [;)]

I think it might be possible that there is missunderstanding. nobody said that they are ashamed. in contrary, they may be too prood of it. actually many of them exaggerate their pride. that is my word. and why do they have to be prood any way? because they are what they are? if it is that normal, then why do they have to have a parade? there is no designated hetero parade to show my pride that i am hetero. besides i wouldn´t go there as it is not my cup of tea.

i think it might be the time to return to a normal level. or may be time is not far enough yet...
 
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Re: Re: Re: Orientation?

Wadula said:
I think it might be possible that there is missunderstanding. nobody said that they are ashamed. in contrary, they may be too prood of it. actually many of them exaggerate their pride. that is my word. and why do they have to be prood any way? because they are what they are? if it is that normal, then why do they have to have a parade? there is no designated hetero parade to show my pride that i am hetero. besides i wouldn´t go there as it is not my cup of tea.

i think it might be the time to return to a normal level. or may be time is not far enough yet...
There is no misunderstanding. I am trying to get people to think about things in a different way and consider possibilities they may not otherwise entertain. I don't expect to change anybody's mind. You may not agree with everything I say, and that is fine. I am not here to shout people down or call them names.

As for why they are proud, I think it has a lot to do with the struggle they face in the day to day. As much as they may want to be anonymous in society and for sexual orientation to be a non-issue, the fact is that there is a lot of fear, ignorance, and hatred of homosexuals. It can be manifested in many ways, including extreme acts of violence. I do not think it is surprising that they have reacted with a movement.

The point I am trying to make is that you can't expect homosexuals to hide their nature so as not to offend you. If you are going to treat everyone equally, you have to accept them as they are. If you don't like public displays of affection, fine, I am not a huge fan myself (unless it is girl on girl action! [rofl] ), but if you say we are equal then you have to treat hetero PDA the same as homo PDA. If homosexuality is genetic, then celebrating it starts to look a lot like celebrating other genetic traits, including ethnicity.

Anyways, I am through with my political rant. I am glad this has stayed in the off-topic forum and not spilled over into the rest of the site.
 


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