Saw the E90 today..up close!!!

[jrt67ss350]

Interesting, I drove E46 325ic and 323ic and loved those cars, very lively machines, very light and nimble, although I can't say the same about E46 330ic - it felt too heavy to me. I never drove E30 but I can't say that there is big difference between E36 and E46 in terms of driving expirience. E36 interior looks more spartan than E46 interior but I actually like it.

I agree that the driving experience of the E36 and E46 is similar. I will also say that the driving experience is very different from the E30. Don't get me wrong, I love the E36 and E46 (I would love to own an E46 - it is a beautiful car). The driving feel is different from the E30, though. The E36 and E46 feel like larger cars (because they are), and IMO, you feel more isolated than you do in the E30. This greater isolation is the result of refinement of the car - there is no question that the E36 is more refined than the E30 and that the E46 is more refined than the E36. The E30 is a pure driver's car, plain and simple. You can feel everything that the suspension is doing at all times, you can hear what the engine and transmission are doing. It is you connected to the road - nothing else intervenes. There is nothing "luxury" about the E21/E30 - that was not the original intent of the 3 series. After all, the original E30 advertising campain repeatedly stated that in producing the 3er, "BMW produces a car built on the belief that performance is what makes a sports sedan worth the money." Their slogan was not that luxury is what makes a sports sedan worth the money. The "luxury" is something that the 3er has acquired over the years. Now, don't get me wrong - there isn't necessarily anything wrong with luxury, it's when the luxury starts becoming more important than the "sports" part of the sports sedan philosophy that I become disinterested in the car. I mean, the E90 doesn't even have a coolant temp gauge - clearly "sports" is not the emphasis with this new car. The refinement that seems to have come with the E90 appears to have focused on refining the luxury and making it a priority. I just don't think that the new 3er caters to what I want in a sports sedan.

 

[blondboinsd]

This is for duetsch or however its spelled, as the owner of 3 bmws, one of which you have talked down on, and currently owned or owned pretty much the entire bmw line, I would like to tell you to shut up, leave the "black jap car" alone, his opinions are just as good and in my regard much better then yours because they offer facts and actual depth other the constant crap about how you hate difference, I LOVE my Z4 and I LOVE my 325i and I LOVE my X5, and I think their all fun to drive and I'm over your constant whining, this board is more then complaints, period

 

[bmw555]

I agree that the driving experience of the E36 and E46 is similar. I will also say that the driving experience is very different from the E30. Don't get me wrong, I love the E36 and E46 (I would love to own an E46 - it is a beautiful car). The driving feel is different from the E30, though. The E36 and E46 feel like larger cars (because they are), and IMO, you feel more isolated than you do in the E30. This greater isolation is the result of refinement of the car - there is no question that the E36 is more refined than the E30 and that the E46 is more refined than the E36. The E30 is a pure driver's car, plain and simple. You can feel everything that the suspension is doing at all times, you can hear what the engine and transmission are doing. It is you connected to the road - nothing else intervenes. There is nothing "luxury" about the E21/E30 - that was not the original intent of the 3 series. After all, the original E30 advertising campain repeatedly stated that in producing the 3er, "BMW produces a car built on the belief that performance is what makes a sports sedan worth the money." Their slogan was not that luxury is what makes a sports sedan worth the money. The "luxury" is something that the 3er has acquired over the years. Now, don't get me wrong - there isn't necessarily anything wrong with luxury, it's when the luxury starts becoming more important than the "sports" part of the sports sedan philosophy that I become disinterested in the car. I mean, the E90 doesn't even have a coolant temp gauge - clearly "sports" is not the emphasis with this new car. The refinement that seems to have come with the E90 appears to have focused on refining the luxury and making it a priority. I just don't think that the new 3er caters to what I want in a sports sedan.

I hear you, hopefully there is other manufactures producing pure breed sports cars, I read some very positive reviews about Lotus Elise, I would like to test drive one but can't find any dealership which has it yet. BMW should really make something like Elise - the pure sports car, before they lose this segment of the market. Many people just don't care about all those electronics and luxury and just want a car that's fun to drive.

 

[bmw555]

This is for duetsch or however its spelled, as the owner of 3 bmws, one of which you have talked down on, and currently owned or owned pretty much the entire bmw line, I would like to tell you to shut up, leave the "black jap car" alone, his opinions are just as good and in my regard much better then yours because they offer facts and actual depth other the constant crap about how you hate difference, I LOVE my Z4 and I LOVE my 325i and I LOVE my X5, and I think their all fun to drive and I'm over your constant whining, this board is more then complaints, period

hm... can you explain what your Z4, 325i and X5 have to do with E90? You are out of topic here so shut up yourself!

 

[Wallie05]

"acceleration, handling, braking, and luxury"? maybe you right here, but what about the spirit, bro? I don't feel any spirit in this car and without it everithing else just don't matter. Well, as Average Jae said: lets wait for coupe.

I'm with you BMW555 on this one. I don't know when performance-related numbers became the new end all, be all of sportiness/drive feel. I was of that persuasion once—erroneous as it was. I remember when the Mercedes 2003 E55 AMG came out and it beat the E39 M5 in almost every numbers-category, but there were still guys in here defending the E39 by reducing the emphasis on numbers; the BMW had the better feel, they said, it was sportier, it fostered a more intimate relationship with the driver (a la 6spd).

Nowadays, I haven't seen anybody say how lively the drive in the new E90 is, or communicative the steering and brakes are. All I see is numbers, numbers, numbers (0-60, ¼ mile, etc). Could it be because the feel of the car has been watered down? I don’t know, I haven’t driven one yet, but I’m not holding my breath.

Oh, and MrE. C'mon, if your riding this whole subjectivity train (which I think is fine), give us a break about the whole materials thing. If you’re going to say that styling is subjective, then so is the feel of interior materials quality. And its seems that the consensus among many pre-Bangle BMW owners is that materials quality has gone down (it may not be that bad compared to other makes, but many believe it has gone down). Subjective, yes, but the majority in this case happens to disagree with you so your plea that we all stop with the materials thing is moot. Ride in an E46 or E39 every day and then hop into an E60 (or E90 from the looks of it) and see the difference….

 

[epj3]

Wow i haven't heard people say "shutup" to each other for like, 15 years. Seriously, what makes your opinions much more worth while than his? He's ridden/driven more types of bmw's than most of us.

You have to remember that people dont care about feel or quality anymore, they just want the name and the features. Seriously, all you hear on forums is "i dont like the styling..." or "it isn't sporty enough...." but bmw sold more 5's in 2004 than ever before. I miss my e30's light and nimble handling, but I enjoy my e34's torque...mmmmmm, torque. Torque makes up for a lot, just so you know.

 

[MrElussive]

The thing that bothers me about the E90 is something that you pointed out yourself, Emile: that the car "is more luxurious." It seems to me that the focus has shifted from a car that is all about the mechanics of driving to a car whose priority is the luxury with the driving thrown in as a side benefit. That's not what I look for when I say that I want a 3 series. I mean, look at what has happened to the 3 series over the past two body styles - we have gone from the E30 to the E90. The E30 is all about the driving - there is nothing luxury about it. In the E30 you are connected physically to the road - you feel every twitch of the front wheels back through the steering wheel, the car likes to drift/oversteer at the limit, the pedals are perfectly positioned for heel/toe shifting, the car gives you engine and drivetrain sounds, the car feels very light (unlike the E46s that I have driven) the car is solid and extremely nimble and tossable. There just seems to have been a steady decline in the driving character of this car over the years in exchange for increasing "luxury." I love the E46, but I recognize that even the E46 is an extremely different car from the earlier 3ers. The E90 takes this departure one big step further.

Call the progression from the E30 to the E90 "progress" or what you will. I call it a change in focus of what the car is and what niche it fills. That's why I'm currently not a big fan of the E90.

You are forgetting that BMW makes luxury-sport machines, not sports cars. If you watch the evolution of the auto industry, the way you make a new car better than the old version is by improving upon what is already there. You make the car more roomy, you make it faster, handle better, stop better, and you add more features. Whether we are talking about a Mercedes SL or a Volkswagen Jetta, all vehicles in the auto industry share on thing: they all get better with time, and when it comes to cars, "better" means the same thing, regardless of the manufacturer. You have to take into account that part of making a car better, being more features and more room, you have to make the car bigger and heavier. This takes away from the very direct and connected road feel. If you want a totally pure BMW, M3 CSL is the way to go. That is why it is in my avatar. It is 100% BMW sport, 0% BS (except for the SMG - it should be manual but BMW had to be arrogant about it).

 

[MrElussive]

Yes, but E46 has all this plus good looks (especially coupe, never really liked E46 sedan) so E90 looks like a step down to me. But if you like it so much my friend then stop talknig about how much you like it and go buy one, it's your money.

That's fine, that's your opinion but the E90 is just a better machine, on paper and on the road. Also, I never said I wanted to purchase or lease a new 330i. It is a great car and if I were looking for a sport sedan under $50K right now, I would probably go with the 330i 6-speed fully loaded.

 

[MrElussive]

Yeah...what's up with the E90 lease rates?? A heavily loaded 330cic zhp with a sticker price of $55,000 is cheaper to lease than a $46,000 E90 sedan. Odd.

That's an easy one. Brand-new cars start out with a low residual value and are priced close or at MSRP. The old 330 has a well-defined residual value and dealerships are trying to get them off the lots ASAP (lots of $$$ off MSRP).

 

[MrElussive]

I'm with you BMW555 on this one. I don't know when performance-related numbers became the new end all, be all of sportiness/drive feel. I was of that persuasion once—erroneous as it was. I remember when the Mercedes 2003 E55 AMG came out and it beat the E39 M5 in almost every numbers-category, but there were still guys in here defending the E39 by reducing the emphasis on numbers; the BMW had the better feel, they said, it was sportier, it fostered a more intimate relationship with the driver (a la 6spd).

Nowadays, I haven't seen anybody say how lively the drive in the new E90 is, or communicative the steering and brakes are. All I see is numbers, numbers, numbers (0-60, ¼ mile, etc). Could it be because the feel of the car has been watered down? I don’t know, I haven’t driven one yet, but I’m not holding my breath.

Oh, and MrE. C'mon, if your riding this whole subjectivity train (which I think is fine), give us a break about the whole materials thing. If you’re going to say that styling is subjective, then so is the feel of interior materials quality. And its seems that the consensus among many pre-Bangle BMW owners is that materials quality has gone down (it may not be that bad compared to other makes, but many believe it has gone down). Subjective, yes, but the majority in this case happens to disagree with you so your plea that we all stop with the materials thing is moot. Ride in an E46 or E39 every day and then hop into an E60 (or E90 from the looks of it) and see the difference….

Wallie, show me BMW's costs for E46 materials and E90 materials. Styling is subjective but quality isn't. You really need to learn a thing or two about cars instead of being such a tool of car magazines. Keep in mind that the cars they review are the same ones being advertised in their magazines.

 

[MrElussive]

I agree. Get rid of your black Japanese car, and go buy an E90. Then we won't have to hear you constantly defending something you don't have. Honestly, I thinks it's cool that you like it so much. Not very often in life, can we be so devoted, and excited about a material object. So please......stop praising the
f--king thing, and go buy one. You will be, as will the rest of us, much happier

I never stated I was going to buy one. And unlike you, I actually keep my car for more than 5 minutes. I don't buy and sell cars back and forth and then constantly complain about them...how can I enjoy any car if I'm so busy being a day-trader? My black Japanese car is on lease for another 15 months and I'll enjoy those remaining months.

Okay, I'm pretty much done here.

 

[Bmw 325i 7803]

All I can say is if the lease price is right, the new 330i might have a place in my heart!

Yo E-man that was a marathon....

But car trading is the way to go if you can afford it, we love your collection Deutsch...

 

[hosagod]

Such heated conversations over the e90, I sense a bright future for this car!

Controversy often leads to success, and I believe history will hold true for this vehicle and for every other "ugly" BMW to come in the near future!

And stop bashing japanese cars, I don't know why, but some of you have this internal hatred for everything Japan, which is funny because I bet half, if not all, of the electronics and such in your homes are japanese made...and let's especially not bash on MrElussive because we all know, ADMIT IT, that the G35 is a fine car.

-e90 forever!

 

[Bmw 325i 7803]

Such heated conversations over the e90, I sense a bright future for this car!

Controversy often leads to success, and I believe history will hold true for this vehicle and for every other "ugly" BMW to come in the near future!

And stop bashing japanese cars, I don't know why, but some of you have this internal hatred for everything Japan, which is funny because I bet half, if not all, of the electronics and such in your homes are japanese made...and let's especially not bash on MrElussive because we all know, ADMIT IT, that the G35 is a fine car.

-e90 forever!

Actually I smoked a Black G35 coupe today mainly because he was mesmerized by my dirty rims and forgot to mash the gas pedal. It has almost a throaty mustang V8 growl, I like the I6's moan better. The G35 is a nice car, I even like the sedan which seems to get quite a few complaints...(why?)

 

[Kirby]

....
Nowadays, I haven't seen anybody say how lively the drive in the new E90 is, or communicative the steering and brakes are. All I see is numbers, numbers, numbers (0-60, ¼ mile, etc). Could it be because the feel of the car has been watered down? I don’t know, I haven’t driven one yet, but I’m not holding my breath.

The E90 is not available for general sale until May 6 in the US, so there are no "commoners" reporting hands on opinions yet. It will be 3 months until we start hearing good "man in the street" feedback on the E90. Until then, specs and car shows are pretty much it.

 

[Kirby]

nos·tal·gia (nŏ-stăl'jə, nə-)
n.

1. A bittersweet longing for things, persons, or situations of the past.

 

[Average Jae]

dang, i missed quite a bit, and already forgot some of the things i wanted to say. and i don't really feel like doing Emile's post by post comments, altho it'd be super long otherwise.. i'm glad that the debate is heated, but no moms are being thrown around. hope we can keep it somewhat civil ^^;;

first off, i agree w/ Emile on the lease rates. i was gonna type that in myself, but he said it first. it happens to all the new cars, because there's no reason to have a cheap lease rates in the beginning, esp if there's a big demand. comparing the e46 lease to e90 lease is unfair in many ways, including the fact that the dealers are trying to move the e46 off the lot to make room for the e90. of course there will be more incentives.

comparing the e90 vs e46. let's compare apples to apples. as many mentioned previously, the sedan's styling just isn't all that great. the only reason i even looked at the sedan was because of the fact that i didn't like the coupe's face lift, and just when i gave up all hope, i saw the ZHP! most of us love the way the e46 coupes look, well we don't even have an example of what the e90 coupes will look like, so how can we debate that? and don't bring in the spy photo crap, all cars are ugly w/ bras on.

lets look back on this thread even three months from now, and see how much of our "opinions" change after some test drives and getting used to the look of the new car. but this debate is fun.

nice Nostalgic touch Kirby

 

[jrt67ss350]

nos·tal·gia (nŏ-stăl'jə, nə-)
n.

1. A bittersweet longing for things, persons, or situations of the past.

Yep, that's me. I can't help it - one of my cars is 18 years old, and the other is 38 years old.

 

[deutsch100]

This is for duetsch or however its spelled, as the owner of 3 bmws, one of which you have talked down on, and currently owned or owned pretty much the entire bmw line, I would like to tell you to shut up, leave the "black jap car" alone, his opinions are just as good and in my regard much better then yours because they offer facts and actual depth other the constant crap about how you hate difference, I LOVE my Z4 and I LOVE my 325i and I LOVE my X5, and I think their all fun to drive and I'm over your constant whining, this board is more then complaints, period

I love our X5, our Z8 and the M3. "Boi" you don't have to tell people to shut up, if you don't like my constant whining, and our complaining board,,,please don't let the door hit you in the ass when you leave the board.

I am tired of all you immature, young brats who have never driven real BMWs and Real Mercedes...and are just so happy to be driving your plastic BMWs.

You and Mr. E can post all the numbers and statistics you want, and if you think that makes better posts, great. I am speaking from experience, and I have found that to be much better at judging.

 

[bmw555]

I never stated I was going to buy one. And unlike you, I actually keep my car for more than 5 minutes. I don't buy and sell cars back and forth and then constantly complain about them...how can I enjoy any car if I'm so busy being a day-trader? My black Japanese car is on lease for another 15 months and I'll enjoy those remaining months.

Okay, I'm pretty much done here.

You don't lease the car you love, you buy it, so it's yours and only yours! Your problem is that the car is a commodity to you. I don't think you really enjoy your car - you enjoy the deal you got, you enjoy the numbers, horse power per dollars ratio and shit like that. This is boring.