1991 325IX -- need purchase advice

UDPride · May 3, 2005

Guys and gals:

I need some advice. Im looking at a 1991 BMW 325ix 4dr. 120,000 miles. Its a one owner car thats black with tan interior that was traded in on a new Acura.

Initially I was looking fo ra Subaru SVX, but so many of those have tranny issues, Im thinking this local 325IX may fit the bill. I currently have a WRX thats going back to the dealer off a lease soon.

I talked to the person who is selling the care and whom took it in on the trade from the original owner.

His summary:

- Car serviced at 100,000 miles
- Older couple owned it
- Some rock chips up front, normal for age
- Service light just came on. He wonders if its because the car just eclipsed 120,000 mile mark?????
- Car drives beautifully, smooth as a kitten, pulls hard
- Interior is immaculate, no dash cracks, back seats never sat in, A/C blows cold, definitely a gently used car
- Rear right passenger window doesnt go down, other than that everything works, heated seats, stereo, mirrors, roof, all of it.

Other than rock chips and a bad window he says the car is extremely tight and hes been driving it the last two weeks since it was traded in. Initially thought hed give it to his kid but his kid doesnt think it fits his personality.

I need an AWD car to replace the WRX. Are there any trouble issues on the 91 325IX cars I should worry about? Considering its one owner I have to conclude the people who bought it were fairly well-to-do and had the money to consistently keep it in good condition.

Are there any major service requirements at 120,000 miles? If thats the mile mark for a massive service, I may need to keep that in mind. Do you do a 60,000 mile service again? What would that entail?

I need a car that will give me 75,000 miles of life or 6yrs. How many miles can one of these babies reliably give me? Are they rock solid? No major weak spots like tranny failures or something?

The asking price on this car is very competitive (under $4000) which is why Im intrigued.

Any guidance you can give would be greatly appreciated to help me decide if this car is a good one to make an offer on. Thanks.

echothreezero · May 3, 2005

OK - I know nothing of the all-wheel drive models, so this is just general e30 stuff:

20,000 miles is a long time between services.

120000 miles is OK for an e30, BUT the cam belt should have been replaced at 60,000, and will need to be done again now.

Water pumps and fuel pumps go at around 60 - 100000 miles, so if these have never been replaced expect to do them soon.

Check that the car has never overheated - this is bad news for these engines.

Rust - inside shock towers, esp rear ones, in and around the boot and rear lights, under the guards - all these are common places for e30's to rust. Also around the sunroof if it has one.

Noisy tappets are common, but can be adjusted, and are a trait of the m20 engine.

Perform all usual checks for a used car.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head - anyone else care to add anything?

UDPride · May 3, 2005

Good info thus far.

How much are cam belts and water pumps and fuel pumps on these cars.

Im trying to gauge possible expenses if I need to perform some maintenance that I may not be able to verify being done.

Thanks.

Also, anyone know how reliable the AWD is. Is it a thing that generally breaks and costs more than the car itself to fix, or is it fairly reliable?

echothreezero · May 3, 2005

I don't know how much those things cost in the states, but I had my cambelt, plugs, tappets (adjusted) water pump and coolant flush done for NZ$700 - about $400 US I think. I haven't done my fuel pump

E30's regularly do 200000 miles if looked after without major maintenance, although that doesn't mean you won't be unlucky.

UDPride · May 3, 2005

OK if anyone else has any ballpark US$ figures on replacing cam belts, water pumps, and fuel pumps let me know.

I know replacing the water pump and timing belt on my 944 Turbo cost about $1200. Maybe more. I cant remember. I know its like 8hrs of labor.

epj3 · May 3, 2005

UDPride said:

If it's automatic, just stay away from it. The common thing to go are the transfer cases, it's expensive and difficult to replace, but they CAN last 200k+ miles, depending on the previous owners driving style, roads, or just luck. I'd say go for it if it looks good, is NOT an automatic, and drives nice. Echothreezero is right for the most part - except a LOT of these cars see 300k+ on the original bottom end of the engine. pretty damn good.

If you are mechanical you can do the valve adjustment for $5 - $10 (cost of the gasket) assuming you have a wrench and a spark plug socket.

If you are even more mechanically inclined, you can do the waterpump and timing belt fairly easily, for about $130 in parts (belt, waterpump, and i think a gasket). This is something you'll DEFINITELY want to do unless the PO recently did it. If this belt breaks you can say goodbye to 12 expensive valves and possibly 6 even more expensive pistons... it's an interference engine and for some reason bmw decided to use a blet instead of a chain - OOPS! This repair would take you about 6 hours to do, if you have no experience, let yourself a weekend and buy a bently manual (this is the bible for your car...)

UDPride · May 3, 2005

Im not mechanically inclined.

Whats wrong with automatic? I really dont want a stick. Ive never owned an automatic car but I need something for the daily haul and am tired of the shifting grind. Besides I have two sticks in the garage for driving fun as it is.

Car has been 1 owner adult owned entire life. So nobody on here is happy with their 325ix auto? I think you are covering a broad brush. Every car stands on its own merits does it not. Or are 85% of the autos complete flops? A few bad apples does not spoil a bushel.

epj3 · May 4, 2005

UDPride said:

If you buy an automatic you WILL replace the transmission sometime, at the nice cost of $2 - 4k. If you don't mind that, knowing you WILL have to replace it someday, then go for it. They are incredibly smooth transmissions, especially for their time.

UDPride · May 4, 2005

OK granted, but no different than replacing clutches and gearboxes and synchros in a manual. Which can run you dry as well.

I had a conversation with a fella on Rennlist who has owned three IXs. Two were autos, one was manual. The last auto he sold had 276K miles on it. The other about 200. The current one has 130 and no issues. He seemed to think rust and a couple other issues were more concerning than the tranny.

I'll probably know more about the quality of this car when I check it out this weekend.

epj3 · May 4, 2005

UDPride said:

BMW Automatics typical lifetime - 100k - 125k miles
BMW (Getrag or ZF) Manual typical useable lifetime - 200 - 500k miles
Clutch replacement $600 total
Automatic transmission replacement $3000 total

I've never heard of anyone saying " i need to replace my synchro's" on a bmw gearbox due to age, usually it's due to misuse or hard driving.

I would definitely check it out. Make sure it shifts smoothly and doesn't slip one bit. Slip = don't buy it (money pit)

UDPride · May 4, 2005

I find it hard to believe the automatics typical lifetime is 100-125K when the only person I asked on the Porsche board who had owned an auto actually had two and both went well over 200K, with one approaching 300.

That seems like a very unlikely probability for the same person to own such high mileage oddities when he fully admitted he flogged the cars to death, including his manual.

I think the car will speak for itself -- good or bad. That will not be answered until this weekend. To be quite honest, if BMW cant build an automatic tranny that will last 125K, they have serious quality control issues well beyond the realm of casual hit and miss.

echothreezero · May 4, 2005

Just test the auto when you test drive. Hold your foot on the brake and switch from reverse to D and vs/vs. The transfer should be smooth and without undue hesitation, and listen for any clunks from the transmission. (expect some noise from the disc brakes as the pads can sometimes shift slightly between fwd and rev. Or use the handbrake instead of the footbrake as it uses a diff braking system on most e30's (foot brake is usually discs or discs and drums, and handbrake is rear drums).

epj3 - I have heard of cars doing 300k, but not common (mainly to poor treatment of the rest of the car not the engine though I must admit) - e30 engines if looked after are rock-solid engines.

I have an auto and it's fine, but my car is a very low-mileage example (62k). However, if the auto goes, it is quite cheap to do a manual conversion (about NZ$1000 US$750 incl the cost of a second hand manual, pedal box, clutch kit, spigot bearing, gaskets etc etc)

echothreezero · May 4, 2005

The cost of doing timing and water pump on a 944 will be mutch more than an e30. I think all the work I had done took about 8 hours plus parts. And that was for quite a bit of work on top of the pump and belt (labour wise).

What to mechanics in your part of th us charge? in nz its around NZ$50-80 an hour. (US$35-60)

C3 Motorsport · May 5, 2005

Just one more thing to think about...you mentioned that it was an older couple that owned the car. Find out if they ever really put their foot in it. Most people don't realize that it's absolutely necessary for engines to be run hard every once in a while. Not all the time, but if they never took it over, say, 4000 rpms...and you buy it and take it all the way to redline, you're going to end up junking the car or buying yourself a new engine.

As engines run, they build up a carbon ring in the cylinder. if that ring gets solid enough and you punch it hard, you're going to destroy the piston rings as they pass by it and maybe even ruin the piston itself or the valvetrain.

Not trying to scare you, but it's just another thing to keep in mind when buying from an "older" couple

ldzpstnr · May 5, 2005

Yea I agree with C3. Just buy some Redline si-1 fuel system cleaner and it should take car of any carbon deposits.

I dont think he would blow the engine even if there was that big of a carbon ring in the engine. If the ring was that big, it would just blow form everyday driving.... your piston does NOT travel farther up the cylinder when you punch the gas, just more frequently.

Gotta run your engines. Just like Martin Lawrence said to Luke Wilson in the movie Blue streak : "gotta feed a little speed to your ride from time to time, burn all the shit out".

A car that had a serious problem with carbon buildup was the Mid-nighties Ford Probe, more specifically the four cylinder models. They had a Mazda engine in them that had very small combustion chambers that would fill up with carbon and then break a hole in the top of a piston. Maybe even bend a few valves.

I say go for the 325ix. They are pretty fast stock, handle great, lots of mods are out there for engine and chasis, they are damn reliable, and get good gas mileage for what it is and what era its from. I wont own any other car then an E30 I think. You dont want to build the engine up to much though if you do, the AWD system wont handle massive amount of horspower from what I understand.

If you get it put redline gear oil in all the differentials and transmission and the should last for a long long time, maybe as long as the motor will. The engine are known to go over 300k miles pretty easily with just regular maintenance.

If you go 75K miles in 6 years, then this car will probably last you atleast 12 years, with regular maintenance and care. Damn good deal for $4k or less. At $4k thats less then $350 dollars a year in 12 years. Maintenance would probably cost about $350 a year too, maybe a little more. That is if you do the work yourself.

Here is my last thoughts: I plan to buy a 325ix someday. I am hard on cars, tries dont last me as long as they should, etc etc etc.... and as I stated before I think the E30 is the only car I will ever own.

UDPride · May 5, 2005

All good advice thanks.

If the timing belt is a $400 job at my local shop at most, then if I cant quantifiably determine when it was done, I will just get it done and factor that into the bartering.

How long are the timing belts supposed to last? 40K miles? I know the owner had service done on the car at 100K miles (121K on the car now). If it was done then, is doing another belt change now a bit unnecessary or probably worth the peace of mind?

How long should water pumps last. Same thing. If it was done at 100K, is it worth doing now? How much to do this? Another $400?

I will go ahead and do both the belt and pump if they were NOT done at 100K.

Im hoping I can actually get this car down for around $3000. Might take my best negotiating. I talked to the dealer yesterday who took it on trade and he said car ran great and he keeps driving it every day as his "lot car" because he likes it.

Who knows what the service light on the dash could mean.

Again I asked about the interior. His response was "The interior looks practically brand new."

As a safe bet, Im going to pencil in $1000 to bring this car to tip top shape. I'll assume the timing belt, water pump, and a bunch of new tranny and differential fluids, and an oil change.

One person had a good idea. When I get it inspected, make sure the car is in neutral and spin the tires. He indicates both front and rear should spin.

Ive got a AWD WRX, but never thought of it.

Also I ran a carfax on it. It all came back pretty good. No unkown owners. Just two. The original, and the dealer who took it on trade last month.

I noticed the mileage counts from carfax records.

It looks like it was a daily driver until about 1998. Had 75,000 miles or so. Then in 2000 it had just a shade over 100K. Now it has 121K. So it looks like it went from a daily driver to a second car maybe. Perhaps a car for the wife or something.

100K however was 5yrs ago. Even if the belts and pump was done then, is five years long enough in spite of the mileage where they really need replaced again? If so I will do so.

epj3 · May 5, 2005

UDPride said:

Fine - you're the expert. I've only been in to E30 related stuff for 4 years and only did about $4000 of repairs/maintainence to my e30 - myself. It's not like I surf e30 only forums or never have, right?? So hell, why even ask the question if you already "know" the answer?

epj3 · May 5, 2005

echothreezero, actually i've heard of 300k+ e30's on a normal basis. I'm sure justin (jrt) will hit that in a few years if he keeps his e30. Go to bf.c or some site with a lot of e30 owners. Plus doing the waterpump and timing belt on the e30 is a PITA and fairly time consuming.

UDPride · May 5, 2005

epj3

Only 4 years around E30s? I thought perhaps you had owned them for 15-20yrs. My mistake.

I run into similar opinions on Rennlist. Even people who have been around Porsches longer than I have speak falsehoolds for whatever reason I cannot fathom. They take a small grain of truth and then label an entire genre' of cars as incompetent. Its just simply not the case. I hear it all the time. Nobody ever responds on a message board to say "Hey guys, my car got me to work and back just fine today. See you tomorrow." Forums are by their very nature places for when things go wrong. But on average, things dont go wrong and people drive their cars happily under the radar.

Ive solicited opinions from several people, online, and personally thus far. You seem to be the only one with an unwavering gripe about E30 autos that grabs you raw. And yet of the people I keep asking with E30 autos, they keep telling me their trouble has been few and far between, and mostly confined to other issues (electrics, hvac, etc etc). When asked, "would you own another E30 auto?" their response has been overhwhelmingly positive. Perhaps Im just questioning the bone to pick on the E30 autos with you because your opinion has not been one I have found consistently.

As I said however, none of this means anything until I see the car in question. Cars speak for themselves. It may be a pile, it may not. We'll just have to see.

echothreezero · May 5, 2005

Woah epj3 calm down.

1) I know what is involved in the timing belt and water pump because I have had mine done in the last 4 months - so the prices I gave are what I was charged, and I know how long it took because I read the invoice and spoke to the mechanic who is also a friend of my fathers, so i can trust him. if it is different in the states, well so be it, but I can only offer the FACTS I know.

2) My "home" forum in NZ has something in the order of 85-90% of its members driving e30's. I visit that forum everyday, I have 5 friends with e30's, a family friend with three including an M3 and my father has an e30 Baur cabriolet. I browse the used car ads daily - I know what sort of mileages the e30's in NZ do. The US may have lots of 300k mile cars, but in NZ 300k km is common, not 300k miles. They do do it, but not unless the cars have been well looked after and do not get totalled in the meantime.

3) timing belts should be done at 100k km (recommended, but some say 150k km) so that is between 62k and 93k miles.

4)Water pumps tend to go at around 150k km (93k miles) and mine was looking sad at 100k km (62k miles). But in my case the previous owner didn't replace the coolant ever, so that is why it went early. the only danger of not replacing it before it fails is that if you don't notice the temp guage climbing and you overheat the engine you could do untold damage.

5) The service light (coloured bar that goes from green to orange to red) is an electronically controlled timer that is based on RPM and engine hours and temp to remind you to get an oil change. If you have the CHECK light on , then you need to look up at the overhead display or other dash lights to see what has made the light come on. If the car has ABS, the ABS check light should come on when you turn the ignition and go off soon after the car starts - same with the overheat light above the mirror. The check light should flash until you put your foot on the brake for the first time after starting other wise as said it will indicate something (anything from low coolant to blown light buld to low oil pressure).

6) Fuel pump can wait until you start noticing big flat spots under acceration, or had starting or cutting out indicating the pump might be on the way out.

7) As well as all the oil and tranny fluid etc, replace the air fuel (and oil but you were going to do that when you changed it right?) filters.

Can't think of anything else - sounds like a pretty good buy. If you are really concerned spend $100 and take it to a BMW service agent and get them to look over it.

Oh, P.S. - regarding carboned rings. My father has a e30 cabriolet that was driven at low speed from new bvy the previous owner - it has terribly carboned rings that we imagine are quite brittle and will go someday and require very expensive repairs. The car smokes a little when cold or under hard acceleration (which we avoid). It goes OK, but we don't over-extend the vehicle as we want it to last, but the smokiness gives away the rings prob A vehicle that doesn't smoke AT ALL should be fine.

1991 325IX -- need purchase advice

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