- Mr. Clean Auto-dry Car Wash - Anyone know of this?

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#61
frayed, that sure does sound like wax on the wash mit. I've been wanting to wax my car for a long time but never got to it and after every wash the mit or sponge (whichever I use that time) is just dirty and doesn't have anything like you have described on it. About the scratching, last time I washed the car I just sprayed the mit with water ever so often to clean it a little and then sprayed it with soap again.
 

frayed

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#62
Hmmm. The wax I use is P21S. I'm wondering if this thing is only compatible with polymer waxes rather than carnuba. Problem is I prefer the depth of shine from a good carnuba over the state of the art polymers (eg, Zaino).
 

flashinthepan

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#63
My best luck so far has been a "touch-free" car wash, then final drying myself, the air blowers get 80% of the water, I just finish up with high quality towels. I do let the wash guys dry the wheels.
 
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#64
To FRAYED and all:
AutoDry does not strip wax!
The greasy, dirty deposit on your mitt was probably stuff that the AutoDry soap washed off your car. Nothing in the AutoDry soap can do that.
Of course, rinse your mitt or sponge occasionally. But do it with the fresh, clean water that comes from the AutoDry sprayer's regular rinse setting. Don't use a bucket.
 

frayed

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#65
Phil, thanks for your help offline on this matter. I posted my questions in this thread contemporaneously with my questions to you offline.

Anyway, just a follow up. . . after a heavy rain, the polymer did indeed come off, and the surface returned to a smooth, beading, nicely waxed surface. The greasy dirt appears to have been whatever junk had accumulated on the car over time, despite regular washings and a claying.

I've also pinged the Autodry people through the proctor and gamble website. They were a bit baffled at first, and essentially said the same thing Phil said: no wax stripping, extreme cleaning resulting in pretty good removal of gunk on my car. My car sees track time, and I suspect that the stuff removed may have something to do with it.

I got two coupons in the mail for $5 off for the starter kit. Since I've already bought mine, I'm sending them off to two buddies, one with a WRX STi, the other with an M5.
 
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#66
You're welcome. If there's anything else you need or have other questions, please feel free.

Be open to the idea that people who want to sell you more and more goop for your car have created a mythology about car care. First, beading is not an indication of a surface that is protected. Beading actually isn't a good thing. The beads act as magnifying glasses that intensify the sun's energy on a tiny portion of your car. That can cause etching. There is research behind this. I've heard that beads tend to form in the same spots on the car, so etching is progressive.
Here's another: With the new, highly complex two-stage clearcoat finishes coming out from automakers -- especially high-end manufacturers like BMW and Mercedes -- waxing itself is becoming obsolete. Some people aren't ready to hear this, any more than they're willing to hear that the 3,000-mile oil change has been a ruse.
 
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#67
OK Phil, now you've gone to far. First you take away my wash bucket and towels. Next, you imply that the hours of wax TLC is wasted. And Finally, you say that my 3000 mile curse, burn, and get dirty, can be done less frequently??? What am I supposed to do with my Saturdays now?? Work on the weed patch I call a yard (I prefer to call it an indiginous plant garden)?? Maybe spend some time with my wife?? I don't think I'm ready for this...
 
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#68
WILEY:
I'm really sorry ... I'm pushing too hard, too fast. You're experiencing what Alvin Toffler described in Future Shock. Technology now is marching into car care, threatening to move us out of some of our last "personal stability zones." Just do whatever works for you. I'm sure your '96 Z3 enjoys your TLC. Even if it doesn't, you do, and that's what's important. I'm OK with not putting waste oil into the environment as often as I used to, though.
 

frayed

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#70
I've read the same about beading. However, the beading would only seem to be an issue with standing water on the car in the sun.

As for waxing, is there a way to find out if a particular car has the new fangled clearcoat defeating the need for waxing? I have a 97 BMW, and through fastiduous care, it still looks newish. I get comments at the track on its exceptional appearance. My 97 Trooper, on the other hand, has been ignored over the years, and is pretty rough. So, it would seem to me, that waxing is the lesser of two evils: providing protection against the elements at the expense of direct sun 'etching'. Thoughts?
 

metrowash

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#71
Hi Guys, I saw this post and thought I would try and help with a little info. I am in the automated/coin-op carwash business and was interested on feedback about the Mr Clean unit. It sounds interesting

The concerns about the detergents being used in the wash process shouldn't be a big deal. Most carwash detergentss simply are not strong enough to strip wax, or other oily substances off the car for that matter. One of the main functions of detergents is as a wetting agent, allowing the water to penetrate the soil that has attatched itself to the vehicle surface and make it easier to remove. Detergents typically perform this action well before they appear to be a very sudsy bath. In other words, detergents don't have to appear strong before they do what they need to do. But customers want to see suds! However, many detergents also provide a lubricating action for whatever you are going to use to wash the car with, whether it be a brush, sponge, mitt, etc.

Detergents strong enough to remove road film are not be present in this wash system. To do so would require a solution containing akalinity and would be too risky for P&G to provide to the general public. Akaline solutions are used at professional car washes to remove road film, but if they were left to dry on a vehicle's surface they could possibly haze it and have to be buffed out. So you don't see this stuff on shelves of your favorite store. And these akaline solutions we use can remove road film, but can attack wax too if too strong, although a good wax will stand up to several applications of an akaline detergent.

Soft water still spots vehicles. We process soft water through a reverse osmosis filtration system to obtain spot-free water. I have seen the "deionized" word used in a previous posts and this is another way to manufacture spot-free water. Very cool if they are doing this on the fly in a handheld unit.

It is true that you don't have to hand wax vehicles with clear coat, it is nice to have a sacrificial layer of something on your car. Plus, who can resist the feeling of that surface when it's slick as glass. :) Having said that, I haven't hand waxed my truck in over three years and it still looks great. I attribute that to frequent washing and a garage.

Polymers have been in use in the professional car wash industry for quite some time to aid in the drying process of vehcles. The processes P&G have done in this system is nothing new, but it is a very neat little system they have put together in one little handheld package. There is still the issue of washing vehicles and the runoff going in the storm sewers and watersheds and contaminating the environment, but I won't get on my soapbox about that.

This unit sounds neat. I guess I'm gonna have to go get one and play with it.
 

frayed

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#72
Metro, do so. It works very well, and as advertised. Whatever P&G did, they did develop a soap effective remove enough chit that Sonax and Meguires soaps have left behind for years. It's effictiveness as a cleaner appears to be quite good.

As to reduction in spotting, it's an awesome system.

Being able to eliminate a wash bucket and drying, it's halved the time to wash/dry the car. As such, I take less heat from the wife, my kids are happier, I go to work with a better attitude, make more money, and now am eyeing early retirement. :)
 
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Cincinnati
#74
All -

First let me say I love the opinions and the discussion on this. I have been involved in the development of AutoDry and would like to provide perspoective on a few questions that have recently been asked. As with all questions, there are lots of answers, so I will try to keep to the facts.

Concerning waxing of clearcoats. There is a lot of discussion in the auto industry on this one. The reality is that clearcoat have evolved quite a bit over the years and really don'y require waxing unless they have become damaged. The issue with waxing clearcoats is as follows:

1. "Dry rubbing" a car surface often does more damage. Unfortunately it is very difficult to get a perfectly clean surace on a car. Even after a great cleaning, particle from the air settle on the car and can actually cause damage.

2. Damage from environmental beading - The inherent beading properties of modern clearcoats bring several challenges to the industry. The beading (or hydrphobic properties - techno term), was developed before clearcoats to help inhibit rust. Fortunately, we don't see much rust on modern cars (except if the surface has been damaged from an accident). These beads cause damage to clearcoats in 2 ways. 1) they act a magnifying glasses in sunlight and cause uv damage, and 2) they collect pollutants as they dry down (both fromn the water and from the air) and cause "acid etching" - actually damage to the surface. This second issue happens in the absence of sun. The industry is working hard to develop more robust clearcoat to stop these problems.

3. Using a wax a a sacrifical layer.... This in concept could be true, if and only if you have enough of a wax layer on your car. Although I no longer wax my cars, mainly due to the concern of swirl marks, the Mr. Clean system is compatible with wax and will not strip any wax on the car.

4. Finally the concerns/comments on alkalinity of saop. Extremes in pH (high or low) are not good for the car surface due to a phenomena called hydrolysis. This basically can cause a reaction on the surface and weaken the top layer of the clearcoat. The term acid etching plays into this as well, but that is a low pH thing and not high pH. The Mr. Clean soap has been formualted to work specifically with car sufraces, using our experiece in cleaning and the auto industries help in uderstanding car surfaces. We have done extensive long term testing with our soap using the same testing used by all the auto manufacturers (including BMW). From a process standpoint, our device, which by the way used Design Works USA, a subsinary of BMW, get get the ergonomics right, is like a water filtration plant. It removes all minerals from water, providing deionized water in your driveway. It is the same technology used by nuclear power plants to treat their water, exept it is a fraction of the size of their filters.

This filter, when used in combination with our Mr. Clean soap, will not dissappoint you. I have been using only it for years and would never go back.

Hope this helps!!!!
 
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SWFL
#75
its really nice to see reps of this product on the message boards talking directly to the consumers. ive been curious about autodry ever since i saw commercials for it and after reading this thread i can definitely say i will be buying it soon.

i have one question though: will this do a better job of getting dead bugs off the front bumper than other traditional car wash soaps? thats one of the things that always drives me crazy then i was my car. not matter what i do i cant get all of those little things off.
 
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Troy, Michigan
#76
I have the same bug peeve, but, you know, I've never really paid too much attention since I've been using AutoDry. I guess that's because I've never had problems removing bugs using the AutoDry soap. The soap seems to work better on bugs than regular soaps, based on my personal observation. There are no scientific tests I know of that compares AutoDry's bug-wiping ability to anyone else's. It's not like a magic potion, though ... you still have to apply some elbow grease to get some of the more stubborn carcases, but I've never had to use anything but the same carwash mitt or sponge that I used for the rest of the car. Sometimes, I've applied a few drops of soap directly from the bottle to the sponge or mitt. Same goes for the windshield that is heavily soiled with dried bug guts. I hope this helps.
 
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Vancouver, Canada
#77
This really is a very interesting thread. I posted this query on a different thread but didn't receive much in the way of answers....so will give it another try given the discussion on clearcoats and waxing.

I'm still waiting for my car to arrive (it's somewhere on a train zipping across the Prairie...no doubt stopping to see the sights) and the dealer is suggesting that I have them apply some kind of paint sealant - which, apparently, results in me not having to wax the car at all. They guarantee against paint fade (and who knows what else) for as long as I own the car. The reality is (even though I'm going to treat the car with kid gloves) I'm not the kind of person to spend long hours washing and waxing it....so the ability to wash it relatively quickly by hand or at an automatic car wash...without spending hours waxing it would be really great. So...is this sealant thing worth it? Or given, the clearcoat discussion, do I need to worry about sealants or waxes at all? How about the lack of wax when running through..say touchless car washes?

Thanks, in advance, for any feedback on this.
 
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#78
I have several concerns about some of the information on the thread..., not wanting to cause a "stir", but would like to add some important information to this post.

For example-

"With the new, highly complex two-stage clearcoat finishes coming out from automakers -- especially high-end manufacturers like BMW and Mercedes -- waxing itself is becoming obsolete."

Clearcoat is a paint, only with no pigment. As a paint, it needs the same protection as a single stage paint.
Without protection, whether by a wax or sealant, the elements eat away at the finish..., just like everything else. There is no magic in clearcoat that makes it impervious to the natural decaying process..., and as such, needs to be protected.
The clearcoat paint protects the base coat, but without a layer of protection on the clearcoat paint, it is going to deteriorate much faster than if it was not"protected"...,

" First, beading is not an indication of a surface that is protected."

True, a freshly painted car will bead, as will a surface that is polished such as a nice car finish, smooth counter top, etc.

"Beading actually isn't a good thing. The beads act as magnifying glasses that intensify the sun's energy on a tiny portion of your car."

Again, true. However, would you want the finish on your car protected or not with the intinsity of the sun on your car?
Many of the quality polishes/waxes/sealants actually contain UV inhibitors to prevent problems as described above.
The reason a finish will sheet, is because of the surface not being smooth..., just take a walk through a used car parts yard in the rain and see the sheeting action.
Nothing will stop the natural aging process..., but with protection, it can be slowed down..., at least for our cars:)

Millreef,
The protection for the new finish can be applied at home and save you hundreds of dollars and in most cases will yield a better protection.
There are a lot of good, High quality, easy to use protectants on the market with UV inhibitors and very durable protection.
My suggestion would be to apply the sealant or wax yourself. The car dealer uses professional grade waxes and sealants such as Pro, Auto Magic, Malco, Coats, etc, etc.
It is purchased in most cases in 1 or 5 gallon jugs for between $15 - $20 a gallon and is designed for fast easy use.
If you read the lifetime warranty, most have fine print that you have to get the protection applied every 3 - 12 months..., no sealant will last the life of your car. Sealants and waxes are only to keep the enviromental polluntants from actually touching your paint..., which is a good thing:)
 
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Troy, Michigan
#79
Millreef:
Wayne is right, dealer installed sealants are a waste of money.

Wax won't hurt your finish. Some people think that wax doesn't add anything to the protection from a modern clearcoat, which is not simply "paint without pigment" as Wayne suggests. Clearcoat has a different chemical makeup, and many modern car coatings use two separate clearcoats. It's not worth arguing about in the end. You'll probably see some paint manufacturers in the near future recommending against waxing. Again, not worth arguing about.

Millreef, sometimes it's just better to consult the experts. This is from the DuPont Automotive website. You can also check BASF, PPG and others:

Clearcoat

Requirements: The clearcoat is the coating layer that forms the last interface to the environment. It carries the biggest part of the technological performance and must be able to resist environmental etch, bird droppings, car wash machines and other outside influences. To improve performance against all these influences, OEM coating systems move from colored topcoats to basecoat/clearcoat systems. The clearcoat in combination with the basecoat forms the automotive topcoat, which gives the vehicle its appearance. One and two component clearcoats (1K and 2K) are applied over both solventborne and waterborne basecoats.

The driving forces for clearcoat development are cost of material and process, appearance, etch and scratch resistance and the environmental footprint. Environmental pressures lead to an intensified development of super high solids, waterborne and powder clearcoats.

DuPont Clearcoat Products: Since the time when solventborne acrylic-melamine 1K systems were the predominant clearcoats, many technological improvements have been made. Requirements for long-term technological performance led to a portfolio of clearcoats that fulfill various customer demands. Product specifications are adapted to the application conditions in the different OEM plants, but are based on common chemical approaches and formulating principles.

Worldwide, approximately 80% of all passenger cars are coated with 1K clearcoats, and the remainder with 2K clearcoats. The 1K clearcoats are subdivided into solventborne acrylic melamine systems, clearcoats with enhanced etch resistance, high solid-systems, waterborne systems and powder versions. The 2K clearcoats include solventborne, super high-solids and waterborne versions.
 
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#80
Good info:)

I am still concerned about the natural aging process and enviromental pollutants (such as acid rain, fallout, bird poop, UV rays, etc) that can and will damage the painted surfaces.

That is why I always recommend "protecting" the paint.

Until the automotive industry and car company can guarantee 100% that my paint will never fade, etch, scratch, marr, spiderweb, loose gloss, loose depth, and that pollutants will not get imbedded..., I recommend "protecting" the finish.

With technology always on the move..., it is possible in the future, however, as far as I know, there are no such warranties against future defects and natural wear on the surface..., so in responce, I recommend "Protection" of the surface.

Just me .02 :)
 


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